Amsterdam to Beijing

So today while on the usual daily commute the train on the same platform as my local one was the night train from Moscow. Rather exotic-looking, and a classic example of how journeys begin because now I'm sorely tempted to tell my parents I'm sorry but instead of visiting them this summer break I'm taking a train to Beijing instead.

Details: 3-4 weeks for this trip in July/August (not quite sure just how much time I can take off yet), without stopovers it would be 2 nights from Amsterdam to Moscow, then 6 nights going on the Trans-Mongolian, then 2 nights to account for one night in Moscow to catch the next day's train and a night in Beijing before catching the plane home (I'm using the info on Seat 61 here, if it doesn't sound right let me know). So 10 days at the very minimum just for traveling, BUT it would be rather stupid to go all that way without stopping over, and the ones that sound interesting to me are Minsk, Moscow for more than a night, Irkutsk, Mongolia (the capital doesn't interest me so much as something out on the steppes)... was in Beijing last year for a week so probably no more than a night or two there, and while I'd like to stop in Poland I realize realistically I'm already going to be dead tired from this trip, so better to save it for later. Anyone got some advice on these stops?

So I figure the above is tight-but-doable if I can get 3 weeks, though obviously 4 would make things better, but I know it's not a part of the world known for being easy to travel around so I'll defer to others on if it's a viable itinerary for the given time. It's also occurred to me that if I've already been to Beijing so recently one could make the case of only going as far as Mongolia as it looks like flying back will cost the same from either there or Beijing... but I confess this doesn't appeal to me as much because it doesn't sound as romantic.

Other things I'm thinking about-

1) I have passports for both the USA and Hungary, and because the visa fees are jacked up in most of the countries listed above for Americans I'll probably be using both (as it looks like Mongolia bucks the trend and doesn't require a visa for Americans but does for Hungarians). So does anyone know whether said countries in question would care about whether I was using a different passport to enter the next country down the line? (ie upon entering China would they wonder where my Mongolian stamp was if it was in a different passport) Or do any of these borders do immigration in one go instead of having a no man's land between them?

2) I'll be seeing if any friends want to come along but, well, if none of them do that's never stopped me from my adventures. I have heard stories from experienced travelers though about how this is a journey that can be difficult if you're on your own- if nothing else there'd be 3 strangers in a compartment with you I guess- but others say no, you meet lots of people on the train so it's fine.

I'm sorta thinking the latter would be true in July/August because it'd be the height of the touristy season, but wanting to check and see if I'm being a complete Pollyanna or some such.

3) Weird question perhaps, but I'm wondering about the cleanliness on these trains after several days on them. This is because thus far the most epic train journey I did was the 48 hours to Lhasa from mainland China, and towards the end of it things got rather disgusting even by Chinese standards. I like to know what I'm getting myself into...

Thanks for the help guys!

I would recommend, your stops sound good, I did it to Ulan-Battor on the Chinese train, the Russian train back to Ulan-Ude then changed trains for the trip to Vladistok. I preferred the attendants on the Chinese train, even though they didn't speak any English they were friendlier & kept it very clean, no comparison to the Lhasa-Beijing standards or lack thereof.

I traveled solo & had no problem with meeting English speakers, shared my compartment with a couple Spaniards who spoke passable English who were traveling with friends who didn't but my limited Spanish was enough to join in with the group. Even on the Vladivostok leg where there was only one other person who spoke English, I shared a compartment with a Russian who communicated with by drawing pictures & sign language.

Do it! You know you want to!
And save Poland for later. You can pop across there from Amsterdam anytime.
Cleanliness will not be an issue. A bit stinky perhaps, but we went on much worse trains.

One thought...if you fly to Beijing and do the trip the other way it is cheaper.

Mama-to-many wrote:Do it! You know you want to!
And save Poland for later. You can pop across there from Amsterdam anytime.
Cleanliness will not be an issue. A bit stinky perhaps, but we went on much worse trains.

One thought...if you fly to Beijing and do the trip the other way it is cheaper.

Really? How much-ish, do you know?

I guess the advantage to doing it that way would be if one ran out of time at the end you'd know to pick up the pace or fly home (though, granted, with only a few weeks in high season one would probably already have to have the timing worked out). Disadvantage though would be having to deal with jet lag right away- how was that over the course of the trip btw? Does the whole "on Moscow time" thing while in Russia get disorienting?

How's Ulan-Ude busman? More than a giant Lenin head?

Actually all I saw in Ulan-Ude, where I switched from the Trans-Mongolian to the Trans-Siberian, was the train station. There was only supposed to be an hour wait, so didn't wander off, turned out to be 3 though, only memorable as my first experience with squat toilets.

Ulan-Bator was not memorable for more than a Big statue of Genghis Khan in the square, however there were lots of trips available out of the city, wish my schedule had of allowed for more than 3 days.

Andromeda wrote:
Really? How much-ish, do you know?

I guess the advantage to doing it that way would be if one ran out of time at the end you'd know to pick up the pace or fly home (though, granted, with only a few weeks in high season one would probably already have to have the timing worked out). Disadvantage though would be having to deal with jet lag right away- how was that over the course of the trip btw? Does the whole "on Moscow time" thing while in Russia get disorienting?

Couldn't tell you how much chepaer, but I do know all ten of us went for less than the cost of one child as quoted if we had booked in NZ!

AS for the time thing, it wasn't an issue at all. In fact , it was a grand adventure for our geeky son who spent the entire time adjusting his watch every fifteen minutes so that he would be on true local time! We had one watch set on Moscow time so that we could tell when we would be stopping at a station (it doesn't happen often), and apart from that, we just worked out each day when we "should" eat and stuck to three meals a day so the kids wouldn't constantly ask when we would next feed them! We just enjoyed sitting back, staring out the window, writing, reading, knitting, playing cards, taking a stroll, watching the sellers at the stations.

Update!

Just learned from a fellow PhD that there is a conference I have a good chance of attending (the "European young radio astronomers" conference- geek!), and this year it's being held just outside Moscow in a place called Pushchino, 120km south- I guess it's where the Russians have their radio telescopes. So this idea just got a helluva lot more interesting eh?

Dates are 18-21 September, so for the sake of the weather it'd make more sense to go start in Beijing beforehand, but my current lease runs out Sept 1 and I plan to switch apartments, so that doesn't seem so good timing-wise. So if I head onwards in late September/ early October anyone know what kind of weather I'd be facing in Siberia and Mongolia? When does the snow start flying?

Thing two, anyone ever been to Belarus here? Yeah, I know, but based on its reputation I can't imagine going out of my way to visit in the future... was thinking of hopping off for 24 hours in Minsk to look around (the train runs every day so no worries) but just found a timetable and looks like the train stops 2.5 hours in Brest on the border. So now it's a question of whether that'd be enough for a look-see.

Other thing to consider is the boss would cover travel the leg to Moscow so that frees up some money to devote to other legs. I remember from my 48 hour ride to Tibet that close quarters with two strangers can get irksome (Chinese hygiene didn't help that assessment!) so I'm thinking bumping up to first for the trans-Mongolian might be worth it with the freed up funds- can anyone comment on that and whether it's worth it?

Andromeda wrote:So if I head onwards in late September/ early October anyone know what kind of weather I'd be facing in Siberia and Mongolia? When does the snow start flying?

I spent most of a September in Mongolia a few years back. Snow isn't that common then and arranging for transport around the country isn't an issue at that time.