Hey everybody, this is my first post and I'll just say thanks in advance to any advice/help that you guys can give me. This will be my first time traveling alone abroad, and my first time in Europe.

A little introduction, I live in Idaho and I will be driving to Seattle to visit some family before flying out from there in late May (around the 21st). I will be traveling around Europe for 3 months, flying home in August.

I have two broad things I would like to ask about:

1) Airfare - I have done quite a bit of looking, and been keeping my eye out. So far the best deal that I have found is through StudentUniverse. I am flying out of Seattle and I found a flight to Frankfurt for $747. Which seems like a steal compared to what I was originally thinking.

Should I jump on this deal now, or should I wait and see if better deals come? There is still a lot of time, but the price of oil went rock bottom and I feel like that is only going to keep going up as summer approaches. I have heard from a couple people that the best deals come closer to departure time (like 6-8 weeks before). Any advice? Does anyone know the general range of prices that could be expected flying from the West Coast in the summer?

2) Initial Itinerary - Flying into Germany (Frankfurt) --> France (Paris, Marseilles) --> Italy (Milan, Florence, Rome) --> Ferry to Greece (Athens, Thessaloniki) --> Turkey (Istanbul, Cappodoccia) --> Ferry to Ukraine --> Poland --> Germany (Berlin, Frankfurt) --> Fly home

I plan on CouchSurfing pretty much the entire time, and going as low budget as possible without sacrificing the experience. My budget for Transportation (minus airplane ticket), Food, and extras like entrance fees is around $5000. I'll probably be able to push it up to $6000, but to be safe I am planning on $5000.

(a) Is my budget reasonable?
(b) Is my route reasonable with a 3 month timetable?
(c) Is a Eurail pass feasible for the first leg of the journey? Germany, France, Italy, and maybe Greece. Or would point-to-point tickets be cheaper?

Thanks again for any advice/help you can give me and apologies for the long post!

1. If your happy with the airfare, I'd buy it. I find there's value in stress reduction, and that really does sound decent for a west coast flight (assuming $747 includes taxes and fees). I don't know what would be decent in the US, but for me to fly from Edmonton, Canada, which is a couple hours closer to Europe than Seattle, costs about $1000. Last time it was in the $750 range was about 5 years ago.

2.a)I think your budget is reasonable, provided you're minimizing your Eurozone time.

Without couchsurfing, I'd expect to spend €60/day, couchsurfing might save €15 or so on days you can arrange it, but I'd figure even if you're committed to couchsurfing as much as possible, you should expect to still have to pay for accommodation half the time. Additionally, when couchsurfing, you might still need to contribute something, like cooking a meal for your host, or a small gift. So let's say €55 per day on average. Exchange wise, now is not a great time, as that's currently $75.

You've got enough for $55 per day over your whole trip. In the non-Euro countries you mention, you can probably get by for $40-45 per day, so you should spend no more than 1 month in the Eurozone.

2.b)You've got a 7 countries listed, all of them sizeable and very spread out. For 3 months, I'd try to cut it down to 4, maybe even 3. Then, either bridge a large distance with a cheap flight (say, skip Italy and fly from France to Greece, or drop Ukraine/Poland and fly from Istanbul back to Germany), or focus on a smaller area of the continent. Pretty much any of the countries you've listed are large enough to justify a month each. Greece is the smallest, and we easily filled 3 weeks there. Our month in Turkey wasn't really enough.

2.c)I'm not a Eurail expert, but Germany and France have some of the most expensive rail prices, so you may get value from a pass there. I haven't done trains in Italy, so not sure, but it has a reputation for more reasonable prices, I probably wouldn't get a pass if for it by itself, but a 3 country pass may still be reasonable. Depends how much extra it is for 3 countries instead of two. Trains in Greece are cheap, definitely no pass required there.

Hi hi!

I travelled Europe last summer, but only for a little over two months. First of all, congratulations on having the balls to go by yourself. I don't think I could. But having that in mind that it is your fist time traveling, I think going to Ukraine seems a bit ambitious.

I agree with 2wanderers that getting through that many countries in 3 months is a bit much, have you thought about the exact cities and stuff? Plan to spend at least 3 days in each city you want to visit, and if you are traveling from one city to another, allow another distance for that. Europe is small, but more often than not there are 5 hour trips... which really exhaust you for the rest of the day.

Paris and Germany are SO expensive, but everyone we met this summer who had bought Eurail passes didn't like them, you have to pay extra for seat reservations and stuff, and the costs really add up. Also unless you do Massive amounts of planning before you probably aren't going to get the best pass for you. I would suggest Busses in France, and Germany. Trains in Italy are CHEAP.

Do you know how long the distances are between some of the places you want to go? It's a 12 hour bus between Thessaloniki and Istanbul... just to give you an idea.

We spend the hottest month of July in Greece, and Turkey as well, and we felt it! We both got Heat Exhaustion, and so flying into Poland was gorgeous! I highly suggest flying from Istanbul to Poland and skipping Ukraine.

But those are just my opinions Good Luck!

Hey Peter,

First of all on airfare. It is a myth, and a complete lie that the prices for airfare goes down the closer you get to departure. That happens in maybe 5% of cases, but in the other 95% it only goes up.

I wrote a couple of posts on how to find the best international airfare right here

There are a lot of good resources for you to check out.

As was mentioned above, please consider that couch surfing is not completely a freebie. It is good manners to either invite your hosts out, or cook a meal for them or something. Couch surfing will not be available 100% of the time.

Your budget is tight, but not completely undo-able. I would fight hard to make it $6000 though. Very hard.

Malene

Yes the route is do-able in 3 months. I guess you have about 2 weeks per country.

The countries you picked are spread out from each other so it is a lot of travel and organisation. But if you are ok with that fact then yeah go for it.

@2wanderers: Thanks for the advice! I think you are right about the stress reduction, I think I'm going to buy the ticket here shortly. I will double check around a bit and see if there are any better deals, but I am happy with $747.

I was thinking about it a bit more, and the best way to lower the daily cost would probably be to slow down and go to less countries--just like you mentioned. Less travel time (and costs), and getting in a bit more with the local CS crowds will most likely make the experience not only cheaper, but more enjoyable.

I know I've given very little information on my travel plans within Germany and France, so I'll think some more on it and do some research. If I spend more time in those two countries, then the Eurail pass would be more worth it.


@miraclepie: Is Ukraine a lot more 'eastern block' than Poland? To be honest I haven't looked much into Ukraine, it just looked like it could be a fun way to ferry up and cross by land and maybe more fun than going through Romania.

I've heard the same thing about Eurail being more expensive in many cases than point-to-point. But the freedom is a nice benefit, and those extra fees aren't that much from what I heard unless you want a bed on the night train, right?

Yeah, that bus ride would be a nightmare. I think a train would probably be a lot better between Thessaloniki and Istanbul. Any idea how much more expensive it is?


@Malene: Thanks for the link, and I appreciate the tips. I completely understand about CS not being free, I don't want to give the idea that I am just joining it to get a free place to stay, give nothing back, and then stop logging in after I get back from the trip. I signed up back in April and have been very active locally, and in a couple places I've gone--gathering some traveler's karma before I head out (and some vouches don't hurt either).

I will do my best to be frugal this semester and try to save as much as I can for the trip. Who knows, maybe I'll manage more than $6,000 =)


@Craze_b0i: I'm going to see about cutting off, or at least limiting my travel, in one to three of the countries mentioned.

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A couple new questions:

(1) Is travel insurance worth it on my low budget?
(2) Anybody buy the city passes in Rome, or elsewhere, to get into a bunch of the sites for a discount? And do students get an extra discount on that?
(3) I've heard that Venice is overrated, expensive, and crowded. Are the naysayers right, or should I include it in my trip?
(4) What type of ratio between big cities and smaller towns is best, in your experience?

Thanks again for all the advice!

1) always
3) Yes its crowded and expensive, but who cares. That shouldn't put you off. After all it's Venice. You only need 1-2 days to see it so actually its not too expensive.
4) fifty fifty

quote:

Yeah, that bus ride would be a nightmare. I think a train would probably be a lot better between Thessaloniki and Istanbul. Any idea how much more expensive it is?

I don't recall how much it cost (and we stopped off in the Dadia nature reserve partway between Thess and Istanbul, which was also really enjoyable), but arriving in Istanbul by train is an unforgettable experience, well worth the expense.

quote:

(1) Is travel insurance worth it on my low budget?

There's 3 kinds of travel insurance
1) Cancellation/Interruption insurance - this is a personal preference, since it means if there's an allowable reason for delaying or canceling your trip - such as a death in the family, or illness - you don't lose any money. It's usually pretty inexpensive, but whether it's worth it is up to you.
2) Medical insurance - you should always have this. While minor medical procedures are inexpensive in a lot of foreign countries (a visit to the emergency room in Romania cost us about $50 including some prescription medication...and I'm not entirely certain the nurse wasn't just pocketing some of that money...when we first asked about paying, everyone was confused, and I think it wouldn't have occurred to them to charge if we hadn't brought it up.), a serious accident or illness can break the bank and leave you heavily indebted.
3) Loss/theft insurance - this type basically has no value, since the cost is sizeable relative to the value insured. It's also difficult to collect on, as you can be refused coverage if the insurance company decides you didn't take adequate precautions to prevent the theft.

If you're traveling with a specific item that is expensive (such as a laptop or fancy camera), you may want to get it specifically insured.

quote:

(2) Anybody buy the city passes in Rome, or elsewhere, to get into a bunch of the sites for a discount? And do students get an extra discount on that?

Don't know about extra discounts for students, I imagine they're all slightly different. I've never bought these because all the ones I've looked at require going to a lot of the places on the card in the space of just a day or two in order to get my money's worth. That sounds like more running around than I'm really interested in. It's entirely possible that some cities have value in these cards, but I've yet to find one.

quote:

(3) I've heard that Venice is overrated, expensive, and crowded. Are the naysayers right, or should I include it in my trip?

Okay, I visited Venice when I was 10, so probably have a different perspective, one that doesn't really involve money. Still, from what I remember, I think it's worth going, just not for too long, and don't get caught up in checking off all the tourist check marks. Gondola ride, St. Mark's. Whatever. It's a city to wander and get lost in, not one to worry about landmarks and checklists.

quote:

(4) What type of ratio between big cities and smaller towns is best, in your experience?

I can't say I really think about ratios much. Whatever flows naturally. A 50:50 mix sounds good to me.

@2wanderers: Thanks for more tips! I think I need to look more into Travel insurance, and also if my current health insurance covers anything. The info on the other types is helpful, thanks.

I just went through and made a basic Itinerary sketching out my route, so I would appreciate any input on it:

*Fly into Frankfurt 5/21
Frankfurt, Germany (4 days) 5/22-5/25
Paris, France (5 days) 5/25-5/29
Nice, France (4 days) 5/30-6/2
Milan, Italy (3 days) 6/3-6/5
Florence, Italy (5 days) 6/6-6/10
Rome, Italy (7 days) 6/11-6/17
Naples, Italy (3 days) 6/18-6/20
*Ferry from Bari to Patras 6/21
Athens, Greece (5 days) 6/22-6/26
Thessaloniki, Greece (3 days) 6/27-6/29
*Train to Istanbul 6/30
Istanbul, Turkey (7 days) 7/1-7/7
Izmir, Turkey (5 days) 7/8-7/12
Antalya, Turkey (3 days) 7/13-7/15
Nevsehir, Turkey (4 days) 7/16-7/19
Ankara, Turkey (3 days) 7/20-7/22
Istanbul, Turkey (3 days) 7/23-7/25
*Plane to Warsaw 7/26
Warsaw, Poland (4 days) 7/27-7/30
Poznan, Poland (3 days) 7/31-8/2
Berlin, Germany (5 days) 8/3-8/7
Dresden, Germany (3 days) 8/8-8/10
*Train to Frankfurt 8/11
*Fly out of Frankfurt 8/12

The biggest chunks of my trip will be in Italy and Turkey. I am wondering if I should just cut out Poland, and maybe fly to Germany right away (maybe Berlin, if it is cheapest).

A couple notes: (1) a large part of going to Naples is to see Pompeii; (2) Izmir is to see some of the city, and also maybe a day trip or two to see some of the excavation sites; (3) Nevsehir is in Cappadocia, which I heard is a great place to visit.

I guess I am a little worried that my itinerary is focused mainly on the bigger cities and 'hotspots', so any advice on some smaller areas would be appreciated.

Maybe skip Milan and spend some time in the lake district near that area, or travel from Nice along the Riveria into Italy before heading to Florence and Rome. This ofcourse is coming from someone who has never been to Italy, but am heading there this year so am currently working out my itinery also. From advice I've been given, Milan is easily skipped.

Hi!

Like everyone else said, you definitely need insurance, but yeah, look into what you want specifically. I always make sure to get cancellation (But remember you HAVE to buy this within 3 days of buying your flight - well in Canada - or it's not valid) & medical. I've never had to use the medical, but the one time I didn't have cancellation don't you know it, I needed it!

I agree with Theft/Loss not being worth it, because if you do get something stolen/lost (ie: camera in Paris) you probably won't have the receipt still/proof... but this is usually included in packages labeled A, B, C. Also if the airline looses your luggage (although I would recommend trying to take enough that you don't have to check any bags), they usually need to cover you.

As for Ukraine vs. Poland. Considering that Poland is part of the EU, and the Ukraine is not I would say that it's more "Eastern"... also my friend's Parents went there last year, and they said that if they didn't have relatives that spoke the language they would have been lost. They said it was a nightmare crossing the border too... obviously people travel there, I just don't know if I would recommend it for a "first time" trip .

I don't think I would ever buy an Eurorail pass. From what I heard it's not worth the money. If you have 2 weeks in every country, like one poster said... how much are you actually going to be traveling around there... you want at least 3 days in each town/city for the most part... I still recommend bus. It might be nice to have the 'flexibility' but if you're on a budget, think if flexibility is worth thousands of dollars to you?? Right now you're only making 4 trips in Germany/France...

Re: The city passes. We have bought them, and almost always realize they are a mistake. The only place we found it really useful was when we were in Naples, and bought a pass that included the circumvesuvia rail line to get us three days of travel. Otherwise, have a look at what they actually include. It's usually full of boring "transportation museums" or really random things that you're probably not interested in.

I would highly recommend Venice. Only for two days though. It's expensive, touristy, but enchanting. But you certainly don't need more than two days. We had two days and managed to see both the Student Section, Murano, and Burano.

That sounds like a pretty cool trip!

quote:

@2wanderers: Thanks for more tips! I think I need to look more into Travel insurance, and also if my current health insurance covers anything. The info on the other types is helpful, thanks.

Well, y'know, once I start I have trouble shutting up.

quote:

I just went through and made a basic Itinerary sketching out my route, so I would appreciate any input on it:

The amount of time you have in each place looks reasonable, but it is definitely a highlights and large city itinerary, which isn't my style, but is pretty much how most people do their first trips to Europe. You have enough time in each place that you can be flexible if you fall in love with one place, so that's good.

Greece and Turkey were major parts of my last trip, so they're pretty fresh in my mind, and I have some thought on your destination choices.

Greece
- 5 days seems a bit much for Athens. I found that for the most part, Athens was a huge crowded city full of not-so-friendly people. There's some famous historic sites, but little reason to stick around.
- I'd cut down time in Athens and throw in another stop somewhere. Delphi is probably my favourite of our mainland stops..try to get a room with a view if you go there. Meteora is heavily touristed, but also fabulous.
- I didn't stop in Thessaloniki, not really sure what's there. I can't comment on whether it's worth visiting or not, but my big feeling is that you shouldn't go to Greece and only visit its two largest cities.

Turkey
- Istanbul's fabulous, but 10 days total may be a little excessive, given your time restrictions. Maybe cut down to 6-7 days in total.
- I don't know Izmir, only saw the bus station there. If your intention is to use it as a base for visiting Ephesus, there are smaller cities much closer that would probably work better. If there's other things you want to see in and around Izmir, then great.
- Antalya is tourist hell. Everything's overpriced, and they have the most aggressive touts in the country. There's some pretty buildings in the old town, and if you're feeling travelled out, it's a big city where you can see a movie and eat in restaurants that don't serve kebabs, but I'd skip it.
- Nevsehir is a big city (well, big enough, anyway). Stay in Goreme. It's touristy, but nicely laid back, and it's a good base for hiking around the region. You can't really just go for a walk and call it a fun day from Nevsehir.
- I'm not sure what's drawing you to Ankara. I didn't go, but it was in response to many different people telling me not to bother.

Things to consider doing:
- I'm dying to visit Safranbolu. Missed it the first time around though.
- It's cliche, but doing a blue cruise is a great change of pace, and can be good value. Prices are highly variable depending on how busy they are, and who you talk to. We managed to get a three day cruise for 150YTL per person (~$100 US), including excellent meals, though probably 200YTL would be more typical. These run between Olympos and Fethiye (west of Antalya, along the med coast). We went with Olympos Yachting (associated with the Turkmen Pension in Olympos), which was great. I've heard nothing but bad about V-Go. There's a bunch of other companies that don't seem to get much mention one way or the other.
- If you're in to outdoor activities, there's some good stuff in Turkey. Along the Med coast, there's plenty of hiking. From Kas (about half way between Fethiye and Olympos), there's kayak tours to the sunken city of Kekova...that was awesome. Inland, there are a few whitewater rafting locations, though they can be pricey.

France
You've got a good length of time for an introduction to Paris, which is great.
I think you've got too much time dedicated to Nice. It's not a particularly interesting city, and the beaches are unpleasantly rocky. There's many places along the south coast of France that are more attractive to visit.

re: Athens, you can see the best parts in 1-2 days. Only stay longer if you want to make day-trips, eg. Cape Sounion, Mycenae, Corinth, Delphi (though for the latter you are better off staying in Delphi itself).

re: visiting smaller places. My main recommendation is buy a guidebook and read-up as much as possible. Big cities have somerthing for everyone; with smaller towns you really need to find the ones that will interest you.

Thanks for all the advice everybody.

Okay, I think I am going to drop Poland, and just fly back to Germany at the end of the trip. I'll drop Milan, or at least split it between Milan and Venice for 2-4 days total.

I'm going to look into Greece and France and rethink my itineraries for both. I'll either move Berlin up to the early part of the trip, or fit that in at the end. Might consider going somewhere in Bavaria, either Munich or a slightly smaller area with a similar atmosphere...any suggestions?

In Turkey, I'll probably cut off or shorten Antalya and Ankara. The main reason I had them there was because it seems like going straight from Izmir to Nevsehir (or Goreme) and then later going straight from Goreme back to Istanbul would be long bus rides. I'll cut Istanbul down to 4-5 days the first time and 1-3 the second time. I took a class on Constantine and the Byzantine Empire, so I want to spend a fair portion of my time in Constantinople. Another consideration is that CouchSurfing is generally going to be easier in the bigger cities than the smaller ones, of course it might be cheap enough in the more rural areas of Turkey that I won't have to worry much even on my budget.

@2wanderers: how much was the kayak tour, because that does sound really cool. I'll look into Safranbolu and consider the blue cruise. And I definitely plan on doing some hiking while out on my trip, so I'll keep that in mind.

For both Greece and France I am open to any suggestions. Mostly I just haven't heard of many places in the country and was going based on travel route (where I will be at, and where I want to go after I get through the country).

@Craze_b0i: Okay, I'll drop Athens down to 3-4 days, and I'll add in Delphi for a day or so. I'll keep researching Greece.