BootsnAll Travel Community

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Originally posted by Elis:
Oh, and then I have this image in my mind that's stuck with me ever since I met a few expats in Senegal way back: Jetsons. Local life takes place outside, come inside the home and everything is from their homecountry except the maid. Completely detached from the surrounding territory and its people.

Elis, good to see you about. Been a while.

I see the extremes of your definitions, as I think many here do. But many of us, especially fellow boots who frequent this forum, just don't fit them. "Shades of grey", as they say.

Aliantraveler: Wow, big post. Sorry the first thing I picked out, earlier, was a technicality. But I'm stubborn that way ...forgive me.

On your internal status debate, if you somehow magically was on the path to permanent residency/citizen ship, would you change your own description from expat to immigrant?

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First, as mentioned above, we’re not all living off some MNC trust fund.

Agreed. In fact, I think they are the minority. The flashy, idealized minority, but most definately not the norm. They sorta fuck up the term for the rest of us. When back in America, wearing the 'expat' label, I get all the warm fuzzy love from people who think I'm privy to the MNC love. (I've personally only had a single, modest year of it, and that was as an expat from Switzerland to the UK for a year! Crazy world...)

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Your mileage may vary.

Shades of grey, my dear boot. But thanks for sharing.

Hm, stoo - if you want me to, I can make a few calls and you'll remain an expat.

On the topic: I'm not ready to be an immigrant yet. However, to complicate the matter, am I still an emigrant? As you have defined (and I agree), it's all about the intent. Hence, I'm not an immigrant to Oz, because I don't want to stay here. However, I am an emigrant from Switzerland, because I don't want to live there anymore. Man, that's fucked up....an emigrant without intent of immigration.



I slay me.

As for social security. That's quite interesting. Stoo, could you take your AHV back to the States? Smuggling money out of Switzerland. Unheard of.

As for Oz - I have a special agreement here with my employer and we contribute the minimum amounts to my super - adding the rest to the salary (tax reduced). The reason being, once I leave Oz, I'll lose 40% of it. (Basically, the fine print reads: GET BENT.)

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Originally posted by elAdi:
As for social security. That's quite interesting. Stoo, could you take your AHV back to the States?

The US and CH have an agreement that means it would be paid out as a pension with limited survivorship rights, by either the US or CH. The details are really complicated and it all depends on what I do and where I live up until retirement. Basically, it is fair. Pillars 2 and 3 can optionally be paid out if I left CH. This all changes if I pickup a passport.

I think it depends on how well you adapt. Expats are those who live in their bubble and don't integrate into their host country.

“On your internal status debate, if you somehow magically was on the path to permanent residency/citizen ship, would you change your own description from expat to immigrant?”

Since you asked….

You mentioned gray areas before so let me answer: “that depends”. If I procured citizenship/ PR as a matter of professional or personal convenience but intended to return to the US one day, I would still consider myself an ex-pat. “Temporary” can be quite a long time. However, if my wife and I decided a change of status is necessary because we want to put down roots and trips to the US are for visits – then I’d be an immigrant.

In the end, I think an ex-pat is a visitor. A very long term visitor perhaps, and one who can develop great affection for their host country, but nonetheless an ex-pat will be moving on one day. To me an immigrant is one who says “I am staying. I want to be one of you.” And that’s an immigrant.

By the way, great thread topic. I normal look at the ex-pat/ permanent resident / immigrant question only from the day to day living perspective: what’s my visa say, how long can I stay, and to whom do I pay taxes? (and super/401k, el Adi!) But this thread has given me something deeper to think about – so thanks!