BootsnAll Travel Community

In about a month I'm heading for Europe. Right now I'm working a bit and trying to save just a little extra cash. The purpose of my travel is NOT to sightsee or do some tourist nonsense. I'm looking to expatriate, but before I do so I need to see a few countries and decide which one suits me best.
Anyway, I have more than a few questions.

1. What's the cheapest way to get there? Looking for a one-way ticket. Which airlines offer stand-by flights (and are they worth it)? How about as a courier? Or do I have another option, such as working on a cruise ship or something?

2. How difficult/expensive is it to rent an apartment for a month or two at a time? Basically, when I find a country that I like, I'll try living there for a month or two. Kind of like buying a car - before you actually make the purchase, you test drive the vehicle (of course this is obviously a much bigger investment).

3. Eventually I'll need to get a work visa. I recently finished college - so will my degree make it easier to get a work visa? I was thinking for work (I have enough money saved to last maybe a year, and I might be able to get more from freelance writing) I'd try either getting a job with an English-language paper or teaching English (after I learn the native language of the country I end up in).
If I go the newspaper route, the paper takes care of the visa forms/etc, but for teaching English I have to apply/fill out the forms myself and well in advance, right? How long does the application process take? Is it hard to get work like this?

4. I'll bring my notebook computer (I use it to write). Do I need some sort of power converter or something?

More questions to come...

I think you have a lot of details to work out and consider if you're planning on leaving in a month. Have you done much prep for this yet?

1. The cheapest way to get to Europe will almost certainly be to fly. Just look online at sites like Kayak.com and find a cheap ticket. It sounds like you don't care where you go so just see what you can find. You can probably find the cheapest tickets the major hubs like London, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, or Paris. A one-way ticket probably won't be any cheaper than a round trip. I don't know about working on a cruise ship, but I wouldn't count on that.

2. Renting an apartment is going to drastically different from country to country. In some countries it may be near impossible for a foreigner with no job to show up and rent an apartment. In other it might be fairly easy. For that matter, purchasing something will be difficult in many countries as well. I assume the way you're talking that you are going to be coming with a considerable amount of money to work with?

3. A work visa will depend on the country as well and can also be touch to get. Essentially, you need to demonstrate why the company should go through the extra hassle to give you a work visa when they can hire a local (or EU citizen if in the EU) who doesn't need a visa. What is your degree in? If it is something other than computers, accounting, or medicine, you might have difficulty. Even with those more in demand fields it might be tough with no experience. Writing for an English-language paper isn't a bad idea, but those jobs can be tough to get as well. Definitely worth looking into though.

4. The converter issue will depend on the country and a quick Google search should answer that question pretty quickly for you.

Good for you for considering travel, but I would suggest you do a little more research before you do anything too drastic. I may be way off base, but your post comes across as someone who has decided they're fed up with where they currently live and if you just get someplace else it will all be better. Maybe it will, maybe it won't.

Also, the majority of the people on these forums enjoy that "tourist nonsense."

Skobb's reply covered an awful lot... I'll just add a few points.

Couriers are a dying breed - there's hardly any work left in that areas. Cruise ships are a possibility - but not to work your passage. It's a proper job with an application and vetting process. I've posted a bit of information on that here.

I agree that renting an apartment without proper residency papers is almost impossible. But check Craigslist in your city of choice - during the university year, students often group together to rent something. At times there is a room left over you can have on a monthly basis for very cheap. I spent 8 months living in exorbitant Geneva for a couple of hundred dollars a month in a huge apartment that way...

Teaching English depends on where you're going. In Europe you'll have a difficult time finding a job unless you have proper foreign language teaching qualifications. Your best bet if you want to teach English is Asia or the Middle East. That said, I don't know about what used to be Eastern Europe - that might be easier.

Freelancing, on the other hand, works well if you are already a published writer and have a track record. I paid for three years of travel with freelance work but I'm a journalist by profession so that was undoubtedly easier.

Finally, there are few one-way tickets to Europe. However, low-cost airlines are beginning to get a grip on North Atlantic routes so you might be in luck. I've got a rundown of sources for low-cost airlines which might be of use.

Whatever you decide, it sounds like a major move. When I decided to try my hand at freelancing and travel for six months, I planned for a full year before I left...

As far as I understand, the work permit procedure will not be so different for a teaching job than a writing job. For some countries it is necessary to do the paperwork in advance, or you have to leave the country to apply, but it still needs to be done in coordination with an employer.

An exception might be these programs like BUNAC in the UK or the one in New Zealand for newly graduated people to apply in advance for a work permit and then find a job. This might be worth looking into if you meet the requirements though I think the UK is the only country in Europe it exists for.

You mentioned learning the language of the country, which is great and will definitely make your time there more interesting. With English teaching jobs, native English speaking teachers almost always teach all in English ... many students want to be immersed in the language plus it takes years to learn a language so they are not all beginners and will already know some.

Thanks for the responses.

Yeah, I've been thinking about it for a few years. My prep work has mostly consisted of finishing school and saving some money. I figure I have enough to live for a year (depending on country).

Been doing some research but not a whole lot. Some airlines offer standby flights, others no. Same with courier, though I didn't realize it was so hard to find the gigs.

I've had plenty of jobs and I've published a few articles (not many as of yet, but that will change). About work visas/teaching english jobs, it's different in every country but I figure if i can find a place I like and then live there a few months while I file the papers and wait for approval it should be fine. I'll see. i got a few propsects too. a few years ago i tried to get work with english language newspapers... one of the editors i contacted told me to see her when/if i got over there. granted, this was a while ago, but figure i'm a much better writer now, so if she noticed my work then, hey, it's a shot, right? there was also a producer at the BBC who was scoping out some of my humor columns when i wrote for a college paper. so i figure i do have some contacts (though england is the one country i can almost rule out in advance...)

And yeah, I am kind of fed up with this country. It goes way back, but I've never really felt like this was my country or that i belong here. Lately, though, something else has changed. My aunt had to go back to work when her husband got sick and they could no longer afford their house payments (she thought she was retired). One of my mother's friends died from cancer after the HMO wouldn't let her get a second opinion on an obviously bad diagnosis. I've actually met people who go to canada to buy their perscription drugs... and too many other stories like these. Now I no longer believe that living in this country even offers basic security or reasonable odds of having a decent life or ever being able to retire.

I don't know what other countries offer. Maybe most of them are worse... but I bet that at least a few are better and I intend to find those countries. At the very least, I think I would enjoy living in a secular society, one with a plurity of agnostics or atheists. One where if I write a column critical of the catholic church and the child abuse scandal, i don't get death threats from strangers. or if an 11-year-old child publishes a letter critical of factory farming in a major newspaper, he doesn't get threatening phone calls the next day (yes, this happened to me). When i was 12, i announced i was an atheist... and suddenly i had fewer friends... hell, my own parents turned against me for years. Over here about 40% of the people are fundamentalists... whereas in lots of European countries (not all of them, but many) roughly the same percentage don't believe in a god at all. And i think the secularism might be the reason that, overall, europe seems to be moving in the right direction whereas the united states seems to be moving in the wrong direction. but i don't know because i haven't seen it yet for myself.

and that's what this is about. i need to actually see it. i need to be at the ground level and make my own judgements (because i have very little faith in much of the information i get here - i mean, i'm still waiting on those WMDs). And this is just the tip of the iceberg. i got enough grievances to fill a novel.
so damn many that at this point i'm willing to trek halfway around the world and leave everything and everyone i've ever known just to roll the dice. so wish me luck on throwing a hard six.

¡Buena Suerte!

Here's to a hard six!

quote:

Originally posted by joeaddison79verall, europe seems to be moving in the right direction

If by "the right direction" you mean "The Far Right Direction," then you're correct. If you meant otherwise, then I'm afraid you're setting yourself up for disappointment.

Europe has its own host of social, economic, and ideological problems that are as outrageous, infuriating, and downright ridiculous as those found in the U.S.. (Or anywhere else for that matter.) The right wing rhetoric that regularly come out of the mouths of self-proclaimed "moderate" European politicians would be enough to make Ann Coulter wince. And, if you're a columnist worth his salt (one prone to social commentary on local or national injustices), then random European readers will find altogether different reasons to send you death threats. Your atheism won't spare you that.

Moving to Europe can't be about running away from America. It just won't work. I'd find something else to serve as the emotional center for your move. Otherwise, once you've learned the language and you can understand what the idiots in suits on RAI are saying, you'll be packing for Harrison in a week.

/Signed, an expat living in Europe.

I have to agree with Not the First Continental Op. Going to Europe isn't going to solve the problems you listed.

Now, if you're looking for more paid vacation time and universal healthcare...

1) I may be off base here but seems like the OPs plans could run into the "Schengen issue". Particularly until/unless a work visa is obtained. Which leads to point #2...

2) My understanding from reading posts over at Dave's ESL cafe is that it's nearly impossible for Americans to legally work in many countries in the European Union.

3) So...I think the OP might be best off heading to eastern europe.

quote:

Originally posted by EMH:
3) So...I think the OP might be best off heading to eastern europe.

But not Ukraine if you're looking to escape the tough life of the States.

Maybe Tallinn. I like it there and they have wifi everywhere. You're from Michigan so the weather shouldn't bother you too much.

Sorry about that last rant. Had to vent.
But don't think of it as running away. More like turning my back. I'm trying to wash my hands of America. And yes, I know that most European countries have issues regarding crypto-fascist nationalism and far-right xenophobia... but I suspect there's more hope (in at least one country over there) of getting past all of that. I don't know. I'll see.
What I'm sure of is finding health care and worker protections (that is, if the Euro-right doesn't erode all that stuff before I get there hehehe), that is, if they'll let me stay.

On a brighter note, I've done some research on transportation to Europe and I've found one-way flights as low as 300 (new york to london, sept 15). it also looks like EMU has finally processed my graduation request for June '08! Better late than never.

Anyone think I can do much better than 300 to get there?

Schengen issue: That's the 90-day tourist restriction nonsense, right? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that I can stay in (almost)any country for 90 days, but then I have to cross the border, at which point I get 90 days in the next country. If I want to live in someplace longer than 3 months, I can simply leave for a weekend, then come back and the 90 days resets... or am I way off base here. But I thought I'd only have to worry about the 90-day restriction when I actually settle on a country... but even that problem will be small compared to getting a work visa/finding a job/legally renting an apartment. Is this correct?

One other thought: Any of you looked at sailing on a Greepeace ship? Sail with them for a few months, learn some stuff about Europe, then have them drop me off somewhere in Northern Europe. I've got a little info about it, but I need to contact them for more. Just a thought.

No, the Schengen thing means you get 90 days total in all Schengen countries combined. You then need to spend 90 days outside of schengen countries before you can re-enter. The map here shows a (hopefully) updated list of the countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement

If memory serves me correctly, Switzerland is implementing later this year. I'm not sure how the UK and Ireland fit into this....someone else would know better.

I think $300 is about as good as you're going to find. Of course, you have to get yourself to New York as well so don't forget about that cost.

I don't know anything about serving on a Greenpeace ship, but I wouldn't do it to learn more about Europe. I would do it because you're interested in Greenpeace's mission. You would probably butt heads a lot if they think you're onboard just for a free ride.

Good luck and congratulations on graduation. It sounds like this trip will be quite an education as well.

yeah, I thought 300ish would be about cheapest fare possible. i don't think it will be too bad (expensive) getting to NY. i'll see.

schengen stuff... that's confusing. however, it looks like plenty of Eastern Europe is NOT schengen. i think it'll be ok then. i was planning to check out eastern countries anyway because the money i have saved will last longer there.
also, would it be possible to overstay schengen if i just don't break any laws or get arrested? and it looks like if i can show proof of some savings or if i can get a job (which is entirely doable with english language papers or freelancing) i'll be ok. not sure though. am i wrong to assume this?

Also, i have one more question: What about medical coverage? If I get sick over there, how much will it cost to see a doctor? And how long will I have to wait to book an appointment (I know in this country we like to say that in Europe or Canada, if you break your leg you have to wait for two months to see a doctor... but i don't believe that).

quote:

Originally posted by joeaddison79:
schengen stuff... that's confusing.
also, would it be possible to overstay schengen if i just don't break any laws or get arrested?
Also, i have one more question: What about medical coverage?

I'm not optimistic about your chances of success.

Especially when you are already talking about overstaying visas. Many people NOT in the know think they can flaunt immigration laws and the worst that can happen is they will be put on a FREE flight home. NOT. Some countries will be quite happy to put you in jail and just leave you there. It will be up to your family to sort out how to get you out, pay your fines and air fare as well as any legal costs.

And your naive question about medical care leaves me to think that you imagine this issue too - is for someone else to take care of.

So many people try to run away to other parts of the world to improve their lives, only to find they brought their biggest problem with them - themselves.

I fully realize that this is a forum and it is here to ask questions and have them answered, but the more you describe your "plans" - the more problems seem to show up in your overall thinking about how to proceed.

Just my opinion. Sorry, but I do think you need to rethink your plans until you have a more realistic view of the world and what it owes (or doesn't owe) to you.

I'll be a bit nicer than Ted.

First off, I think it's great that you want to try living in another country. I wish I had had the guts to try it at a much younger age.

Now, onto your questions....overstaying is generally not recommended. Even if other have gotten away with it, you never know what might happen to you. As Ted has pointed out, the consequences can be quite dire.

Medical coverage? Yes, you should buy it. You need to research your options whether it's travel insurance or full-blown health insurance.

I do agree with Ted that right now your chances of success are limited. My opinion is that you should delay your departure by a few months and do a bit more research and have more of a plan laid out. You should know ahead of time what countries you want to visit and what your options are for staying in those countries legally and making a living legally.

I'll just add my point of view. I have to expatriate myself because my partner can't get a green card to stay in the USA. Yes, there are thrilling aspects to being an expat. But what I would like to do more than anything is to be able to return to the USA and fight all those things that bother you so much about the USA. I'd join organizations and become politically active. I'd make my voice heard. I think the USA needs people like you to STAY and work to change things. But what do I know about your life? I wish you luck no matter what you do.

Dove,

Thanks for the encouragement, but I've spoken out enough to know that nobody is listening. I have some friends who feel the way you do - that people like me should stay and fight the good fight - but what I tell them is that it's a fight that can't be won. Nothing is going to change in this country until the people change, and right now they're not ready to change and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it... so I figure that I at least don't have to wait here. Long wait for a train that ain't coming. But if I can find someplace else where the people are ready... well, maybe I can help (if they'll let me stay), or at the very least I can enjoy myself a little.

To all the naysayers:

Have you ever tried the kind of travel that I'm proposing? Just going there with some cash, playing by ear, and seeing what happens? Or did you fill out lots of forms, do lots of research, and try to do everything through official channels?

I have done some research about the travel aspect of my trip (though if I find a good place, becoming a resident will present some challenges... but I'll improvise).
Here's something I found from someone who actually did it the way I'm talking about:

"If you plan to stay longer in one country, contact that country's consulate in the United States before you leave to get a specific visa, or any U.S. consulate once you are abroad.. In practice, they usually don’t care if tourists spend five, six, seven months here.

"I've routinely gone over for more than 90 days (on one memorable occasion, for about 18 months) and no one ever questioned me about it. Yes, technically that means I've been an illegal immigrant in Europe many times over, but, well, there you go."

I've found lots of testimony like this... firsthand testimony... and I believe it's doable. Their are only two things that actually worry me:
1. Will I find a place I like, and if so
2. How do I stay there.

So for a few days now I've been sending inquiries to English-language papers throughout Europe, you know, feeling things out.

This will work,
Joe

PS. I don't believe the world owes me anything... I could argue the United States does (for starters, I'm a mixed-blood American Indian...), but it's a debt that I'll never collect on, so I'm writing it off as a bad investment. I could also argue that I owe the rest of the world something... for example, the Iraq War... sure, I spoke out against it (before the war actually started), but ultimately I failed to stop it. Only thing I did do about it was to pay my taxes, which funded it, so I have blood on my hands.

So back to my question about health services. Say i do get sick over there and I just walk into a hospital w/o insurance. The doctors will treat me because they take the Hippocratic Oath. I just want to know how much it will cost relative to cost here.

Let's say I break my leg in three places doing a stupid motorcycle stunt to impress a French girl. How much does the hospital charge a non-citizen to fix a broken leg?