BootsnAll Travel Community

Has anyone here ever considered moving to another country permanently? If so, which country and why? What is the most common reason people choose to become expats?

Iv'e been kicking this idea around for some time now and attempting to do some research. There are lots of books on this topic but can anyone recommend the best ones?

I think of it every year when I get my social security statement. Nine years of living overseas has left me in the situation where my monthly benefits are to be about $100. I'm thinking I could retire to a nice cardboad box somewhere in Laos if I give up eating on odd numbered days.

I've been thinking of moving to India once I finish college and travel a bit. I just fell in love with the country and have some great friends there. I would love to be an Indian!

This thread discusses which booties have expat-ted and why..

I’m an American that lives in Jakarta, Indonesia I have also lived in France and the Middle East

I love being an Expat, no taxes, maid and driver, easy life..

But it is not as easy as seems. As an Expat you can not finance anything; car, house, 89 inch plasma TV, ect. So you better have enough cash to pay for everything. In many countries you will have to pay for 12 months rent in advance for a decent place.

Also as a foreigner any legal, fender bender, ANYTHING INVOLVING OR THAT COULD INVOLVE MONEY no matter what…you are wrong and at fault and will have to pay. Why? Because you are the rich foreigner (even if your poor). The police and courts wont even bother with a local because they know he wont or cant pay.

Last year a guy hit my PARKED car and I had to pay for his damage

Also if you want to have western “luxuries” like a full size fridge, sit potties, a gas stove that doesn’t leak gas, Air Conditioning, washer and dryer then you will pay out the ass. Many 1st time Expats think that they don’t want those things anyway, 90% change there mind within 6 months.

Health insurance and life insurance is also a big problem. You will have to get a specialized Expat health insurance package (Expensive) and you may not even be covered if you don’t have a residency card. Life insurance wont pay off unless you are covered for “risky activities” (many insurance companies consider simple things like fishing in Mexico to be a risky activity).

A friend of mine back in the 90’s didn’t think he would need ether health or life insurance because he was only 25, until he got cancer and bankrupted his parents before he died.

These are the “dark side” parts about being an Expat that no one tells you about and the tourists say don’t happen.

Basically you will need lots of money to Expatriate yourself properly, sure you can live in India for 5 dollars a day – but would you want to live that lifestyle into your 70’s without any health insurance? If yes then go for it on a shoestring. If not, save yo money first, get a job with an Expat package or figure out how to make money wile living overseas.

Despite all of these things would I ever move back to the states? Hell No


James
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Check out the many related threads in the Vol., TEFL, & Working Abroad Forum.

To directly contradict others: I do pay taxes, have no driver or maid, do have credit, can get a mortgage, do have health insurance, and do have a pension.

How all of these topics work out for you depends on your profession, your host country, your immigration status and how long you live there.

I've been an expatella in Russia for 4 years and next year we're probably moving to China....

I have mixed feelings about living overseas, but surely the biggest issue with living in a foreign country are the language problems. I've gotten to where I can speak some Russian and comprehend a lot of what I see and hear, but for sure I miss A LOT of details and innuendo. I haven't seen an American newspaper in years, English language books are almost impossible to find, maps are all in a foreign language, train schedules are impossible to decipher, dentist appts. are a nightmare, bureaucratic foreign paperwork is never ending, every daily task is a struggle. It wears on you.

I can absolutely assure you that traveling to a foreign country and living in a foreign country are two entirely different things.

Thinking of high tailing to New Zealand ini a couple of years but as we are both working in South Africa next month it may sneak up on the blind side.

We are slightly lucky in that we can use an exchange scheme first for a year before we decide to go perminantly.

Why? young, have good job that other countries need people in, for the crac. Why the hell not!

quote:

Originally posted by Stoo:
I do pay taxes

I was posting from a Americans point of view, that’s why I started my post with “I’m and American that lives in Jakarta, Indonesia”

Americans don’t pay taxes on the first 80K

quote:

Originally posted by Stoo:
have no driver or maid

I am a messy person

quote:

Originally posted by Stoo:
do have credit

You have a car and house loan from a local bank?

Dang, that’s pretty cool, are you on an Expat package? Sure, some companies will set up home and car loans for their Expat employees. That’s why I threw in “Expat Packages” near the end of my post.

And in some countries if you have residency, a local salaried job and have been living there for a few years you a get a car or home loan from a local bank (but the interest rate is usually pretty high)

I am actually quite curious (and jealous) how you got a car and home loan from a local bank – mostly because I wouldn’t mind doing the same thing. I’d really like to know how you got a Home and Car loan from a local bank if you don’t mind telling me, thanks!

quote:

Originally posted by Stoo:
do have health insurance

Aaaaaa… dude, that was my point, I don’t believe that I said “Expats don't have Insurance” I said the “Expats should have insurance but many neglect that detail”

quote:

Originally posted by Stoo:
and do have a pension

Who said anything about a Pension? Was it me? I don’t see where I said that, could you point it out for me please?

quote:

Originally posted by Stoo:
To directly contradict others:

Better luck next time

quote:

Originally posted by Sophie9:
but surely the biggest issue with living in a foreign country are the language problems.

There is nothing more pitiful than an Expat that has been living in a country for 10 years and still doesn’t speak the language

quote:

Originally posted by Sophie9:
I can absolutely assure you that traveling to a foreign country and living in a foreign country are two entirely different things.

Bingo

James
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quote:

get a job with an Expat package

What exactly is this?


Thanks everyone for the wealth of information. Keep it coming please! I found a pretty good site called livingabroad.com that has excellent, non-sugar coated information. There's so much to consider about a move like this!

An "expat package" is usually a bundle of non cash perks. Things like subsidized housing (usually much higher quality than standard local housing), dependent education, [westernized] medical insurance, vehicle with/without driver, fitness club memberships, paid vacations.

bigmaude: Some lucky folks get companies to send them overseas, pay extra for the 'inconvenience' of sending them off to another country, enrol their children to private schools, give them obscene allowances for housing and transport, pay for regular trips back 'home', etc.

Nice work if you can get it.

There are some people who only use 'expat' in the above context. You are as I understand, along with myself and many others, using the term 'expat' in a more inclusive sense. TEFL teachers on dodgy permits, etc.

jitw: I am an American, so my POV is American too. I was referring to Swiss taxes, insurance, loans, etc. My credit interest rates are the same a Swiss would get. House purchacing options are restricted to various degrees depending on one's specific residential status. Basically, my personal finances are Swiss-based. Note that I have residency here.

Life in the UK was similar even though I did not have residency. Then again, I did not integrate my finances that much. I did have a rental contract, utility bills, local bank account, credit card...but that is it.

After my initial stint in the UK, while working here in Switzerland, my employer sent me off to London on an 'expat package' like defined above for a year. They got me a swank flat in Shad Thames, paid for flights to Zurich once a month, and a fair amount of expense cash to play with. It was sorta goofy...An American with Swiss residency with an expat contract in the UK.

Moral of the story? Every country is going to be different when it comes to what one can and cannot do regarding these basic life issues. Your experiences in Indonesia will not necessarily be applicable to other countries, just as my Swiss experience may or may not translate to other countries.

Taxes: to be more precise, Americans do not pay federal taxes on the first 80k of salaried income (E.g.: capital gains, etc. are taxable) if and only if one qualifies on the 2555. But I am sure you knew that, right? There is more than one thread on this legalistic topic elsewhere for those interested…

quote:

Originally posted by Stoo:
I was referring to Swiss taxes

But you get a tax credit for that (I think)

quote:

Originally posted by Stoo:
my employer sent me off to London on an 'expat package' like defined above for a year. They got me a swank flat in Shad Thames, paid for flights to Zurich once a month, and a fair amount of expense cash to play with. It was sorta goofy...An American with Swiss residency with an expat contract in the UK.

Expat Package = SWEET!

I was on an Expat Package in Paris for 6 months living in a 4 bedroom (4!!!!!) flat ALONE!, 250 USD a day pre-deam (this was before the Euro), Unlimited Car service use, 2000 bucks in “expenses” money, and a double salary.

I still think about those days

quote:

Originally posted by Stoo:
There are some people who only use 'expat' in the above context. You are as I understand, along with myself and many others, using the term 'expat' in a more inclusive sense. TEFL teachers on dodgy permits, etc.

No, hippies are not real Expats


James

The differences have less to do with Hippy vs. Corporate Warrior than they do living in the West vs. East and North vs. South.

If you're planning on living in Southeast Asia or the like, James' experience is very useful. It also applies when living in parts of Africa, the Middle East, and Central/South America. (That said, Chile, Argentina, Dubai, and many other non-western cities offer plenty of accommodations for expats, including insurance options, actual legal status, etc.) If you're planning on living in Europe, North America, the like, then Stoo's experience will be more relevant.

You really might be better off surfing Expactica and Escape Artist for more information. At the very least, it will help you narrow down that location which best suits you.

quote:

You really might be better off surfing Expactica and Escape Artist for more information. At the very least, it will help you narrow down that location which best suits you.

Thanks. Iv'e checked out the above sites along with several other good ones. I'm still in the very beginning of the "narrowing down" stage. I won't be making any move at all for at least five years so I have plenty of time for research!

quote:

There is nothing more pitiful than an Expat that has been living in a country for 10 years and still doesn’t speak the language

While it is sad, language acquisition as an adult is extremely difficult for most people, especially those who grew up speaking only one language and if you are trying to learn a language with a different base than your native tounge (i.e. English speaking Mandarin, Spanish speaking Russian, etc.). So, while many people try, it is not always possible. (I have an aunt who has been in the USA for at least 25 years, and while she can understand English, she cannot speak it)

Yes, there are exceptions, and yes, there are people that don't try, but please acknowledge the case may be more complicated.

At any rate, it looks like becoming an ex-pat is not as dreamily easy as some may imagine.

quote:

quote:

Originally posted by Stoo:
There are some people who only use 'expat' in the above context. You are as I understand, along with myself and many others, using the term 'expat' in a more inclusive sense. TEFL teachers on dodgy permits, etc.

No, hippies are not real Expats

Such a limited, self centered definition is emotionally and intellectually childish.

Six months in Paris and you are telling people you 'lived in France'? Phooey! I say you haven't lived somewhere unless you have been there for at least a year. (sarcasm)

I advise you to reexamine your understanding of what a TEFL teaching is and is not. There are a couple prominent boots who are professional TEFL types here, and your ready dismissal of their chosen profession is very narrow minded.


Bigmaude: We've got all sorts of expats around these parts. TEFLites, diplomats, students, 'professionals', au pairs, volunteers, and everything in between.

If you gave us a bit more of an idea on what you are thinking we could explore relevant topics in more detail.

quote:

If you gave us a bit more of an idea on what you are thinking we could explore relevant topics in more detail.

I'm basically thinking of a place to eventually retire. I'd like to do volunteer work and possibly have a medial job to supplement my savings/keep me out of trouble. I want to live simply and cheaply. I want to learn the language and blend but not be the only American/english speaking person around. That's as far as Iv'e gotten. I know I sound just like lots of other people that have grown restless and bored with their environment. Well, so be it.

bigmaude, anything is doable at some level...but some things are more easily doable than others.

Most countries have very protective laws in place to keep *outsiders* from taking lucrative employment from locals. In many places you may quickly find yourself mired in a tangle of visa/work permit/residency/bureaucratic issues. In many countries they may welcome you to retire, but to work? That's a very different story.

Working abroad in the local economy can be a very hard trick to pull off. This should be researched very very carefully. And also keep in mind that laws for workers from abroad in any given country are generally quite fluid--one year a country may be very lenient about foreign workers, and the next year they come along and tighten the noose and you're on your way across the border.

Working in foreign countries in the local economy is risky.

Well, I'm sad to hear I may not be an expat but somehow I think I'll live...anyway, I can unjam a copy machine in under a minute, and that's what's really counts.

Kidding aside, thanks for you comments on tefl, Stoo.

Maude...I don't have any particularly innovative advice to offer...this is probably something you've thought of, but definitely take trips to the places you're interested in, when you narrow it down, and seek out - while there or before - people who are in a similar position to the one you'll be in. An efl teacher in that place might be able to tell you about finding private students to teach if you want to do that, but I think is unlikely to know about buying property as a foreigner. A foreigner married to a local probably has a lot of insight to offer on the place, but may know nothing about work permits. Obviously locals will have a lot of insight on what it's like to live there (and probably volunteer work) - but someone who is already an expat in that place, and one in a similar "status" to what yours will be, will be in the best position to give you the nitty gritty details.

(I don't mean to discourage you from asking here - this is just the most useful thing I have to contribute)...

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