BootsnAll Travel Community

Every time someone posts a world city index regarding cost, happiness, or whatever then people get a little grumpy about it (ehem…yes, that means you annie ). Also, these indices don’t really reflect our common interest…travel! So, I propose the following:

• First, we all agree on a weighted basket of products and services
  
• Second, we agree on a list of world cities
  
• Third, we all pitch in to determine the costs of the products and services for each of the world cities
  
• Fourth, I’ll whip up a spreadsheet with the above information, post the results and make the spreadsheet available to everyone
  

Sound good?

Let’s start with the products and services. I suggest we try to keep the following definition: “the things a backpacker would spend their money on if he or she were in a city for a month”. I say four weeks so that we can include things like toothpaste, soap, etc. To get a list started…

• a beer a day
  
• one T-Shirt
  
• a tourist grade public transport pass
  
• five museum visits
  
• four weeks at a city centre hostel
  
• (1) 2L bottle of water per day
  
• 50g toothpaste
  
• 1 roll of toilet paper
  
• five hours of internet access a week
  

OK…so bring on your suggestions!

Remember, let us just stick to the products and services for the moment.

Figure in the average cost, or range, of a meal at a no-frills sit down restaurant in the city center.

A can of soft drink out of bending machine.

Nic

quote:

Originally posted by Destiny:
A can of soft drink out of bending machine.

Nic

how many per month do you think?

I think, ignore the toothpaste and other personal hygiene items, but focus on the things you would actually *have* to buy. When I think of the things a backpacker will need in a month, I think of transportation, food, museum and/or other tourist venues, accomodation costs and internet access. Hostels supply toilet paper so I don't think that should be included and a tube of toothpaste lasts me more than a month so the cost of that will not tip the scale.

My thoughts for the basket of goods & services:

-one beer per day
-one t-shirt (standard, tourist grade)
-cost of transit for the month
-5 tourist activity ticket prices (I don't think we even have 5 museums I would choose to go to)
-4 weeks at a hostel or other similar accomodation
-2L of soft drink beverages (including water) per day
-reasonable estimate to eat out for all your daily meals on the cheap
-cost of one standard trip to the laundromat per week, including washing powder

quote:

(I don't think we even have 5 museums I would choose to go to)

i was thinking that i visit museums at a rate of 5 per month...not going to five museums in once city. not many of us would hang in one city for four weeks while on the road!

fair point on the toothpaste, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Stoo:

quote:

Originally posted by Destiny:
A can of soft drink out of bending machine.

Nic

how many per month do you think?

1 a day, sometimes twice a day, so about 35???

Nic

quote:

(ehem…yes, that means you annie Smile)

Before assuming...I wasn't grumpy at all. The index was posted without any background or context, and I was surprised because everyone who visits here complains how expensive it is.

When I was in a city for a month, I also ate once in a while. Usually shopping at the local market and cooking myself for one meal, and eating out for the other. Usually inexpensive.

quote:

Originally posted by Stoo:

quote:

(I don't think we even have 5 museums I would choose to go to)

i was thinking that i visit museums at a rate of 5 per month...not going to five museums in once city. not many of us would hang in one city for four weeks while on the road!

My point was more that there are more activities than museums to consider and that perhaps we could include something like that? Maybe?

quote:

Originally posted by Sky Annie:

quote:

Originally posted by Stoo:

quote:

(I don't think we even have 5 museums I would choose to go to)

i was thinking that i visit museums at a rate of 5 per month...not going to five museums in once city. not many of us would hang in one city for four weeks while on the road!

My point was more that there are more activities than museums to consider and that perhaps we could include something like that? Maybe?

ok, i see your point. diving had come to mind really quickly but that is something that you can only do in certain cities. if we can find something that can be bought everywhere then lets include it!

don't forget about the universal cost defining measure:

the big mac index

In stead of breaking them down so much they should be more vauge.

Hostel- lodging for the month
Food- Maybe figure one or two nice meals a week
Entertainment-beer and the general costs of going out
Culture- museums and other destination specific costs

quote:

Originally posted by Kathryn M:
In stead of breaking them down so much they should be more vauge.

Hostel- lodging for the month
Food- Maybe figure one or two nice meals a week
Entertainment-beer and the general costs of going out
Culture- museums and other destination specific costs

My thinking is that if we have a set group of things then we can accurately compare the cost between cities. No, it is not perfect...just like all indecies, but a vague 'general cost of going out' is very subjective. this is (as i understand it) how all those scientific-but-not-relavent-to-us rankings.

as for dinging out...don't we all pretty much work a mix of self catering (markets) and 'dine out' on the road? i think Sky Annie's "reasonable estimate to eat out for all your daily meals on the cheap" is about as good as we are going to get.

quote:

Originally posted by Sky Annie:
I think, ignore the toothpaste and other personal hygiene items, but focus on the things you would actually *have* to buy. When I think of the things a backpacker will need in a month, I think of transportation, food, museum and/or other tourist venues, accomodation costs and internet access. Hostels supply toilet paper so I don't think that should be included and a tube of toothpaste lasts me more than a month so the cost of that will not tip the scale.

My thoughts for the basket of goods & services:

-one beer per day
-one t-shirt (standard, tourist grade)
-cost of transit for the month
-5 tourist activity ticket prices (I don't think we even have 5 museums I would choose to go to)
-4 weeks at a hostel or other similar accomodation
-2L of soft drink beverages (including water) per day
-reasonable estimate to eat out for all your daily meals on the cheap
-cost of one standard trip to the laundromat per week, including washing powder

Can we make it a week? I think that range is going to capture the expenses of being a traveler a little better -- I think 4 weeks anywhere you are much better off looking for a sublet than staying in a hostel, which is a whole other can of worms. That also eliminates buying soap etc.


So if we do that, the list should be:
-7 beers (one per day)
-one t-shirt (standard, tourist grade)
-cost of transit for the week
-3 tourist/entertainment activity ticket prices (museums, monuments, walking tours, etc)
- 2 low-to-mid-range tickets to a play/film/or dance club
-1 week in a hostel dorm in the city center, or other similar accomodation
-2L of water and/or soda per day
-reasonable estimate to eat out for breakfast, lunch and dinner on the cheap (I count picking up a bagel and a banana and eating it on a park bench as "eating out")
-cost of one standard trip to the laundromat, including washing powder

One beer a day??

Also depends on where you're heading, but for European/US cities, I want to know the cost of a medium coffee (or even coffee-and-croissant) and a day travelcard.

Not so far off with the BigMac index. Where street food is not commonly available, could include the cost of burger meal, fish 'n' chips or other equivalent.

Oh--and I know it won't make me popular--but where it's still legal: a packet of fags!

quote:

Originally posted by whalewatcher:
One beer a day??

I was thinking that, but some travelers won't drink even that, so consider it an average.

In my opinion it may be more helpful,instead of estimating the expence of traveling for a period of time, that you should make this list more city specific. I live in Seattle and finding 5 touristy things might not be that hard but I'd be hard pressed to stay more than three or four days tops if I didn't live here. I would estimate the expense of the local hostel, daily and weekly, then I can do the math on how long I want to stay in a particular area. Same with public transport, museums, etc,...

I guess I just think that these are really hard to judge and can be really personal. I'm a big museum person and spend quite a bit of my budget on museums. Then again, I am more likly to eat cheaper or drink less to counter act that. Maybe we there could be levels? Barebones, middle, and high? Not the normal 5 star high, but a backpacker high?

The point of travel for me is doing activities there - so maybe adding one activity cost per day is fair..

quote:

I was thinking that, but some travelers won't drink even that, so consider it an average.

It's gonna be extremely difficult to come up with a basket. We're not really a very conform, stratified sample here. And some of the differences in personality will make a huge difference in price levels. I'm a vegetarian - to me expensive McD meals are far inbetween (whenever I really, really want a clean toilet in a very, very dirty city). Others smoke. A pack a day out here is gonna make that 70-100 bucks a week! (Fuck! I got to stop smoking.) Also, there are regionial differences that change your behaviour. In Asia, I used to drink AT LEAST one fruit juice a day. Out here, I'd never pay 7 bucks for diluted shit.

This leaves me with the conclusion that in order to find a fairly general basket, it should stay with absolute essentials of travelling - and completely disregard individual consumption (alcohol, cigis, souveniers, etc).

- Centrally located hostel
- Breakfast
- Two cheap meals a day (incl 1 drink)
- 2 l of water sounds good (not the cheapest water in order to level out those who drink soft drinks)
- Local transport
- Regional transport (i.e. going to the beach in Freo)
- Inter-city travel (if possible the next most logical step from your city, if there is such a thing)

Also, we're talking about city costs. As argued before, few of us tend to stay 4 weeks in one city. Therefore it makes little sense to do this over a 4 weeks period. I reckon, to get a decent avarage, it should be a three day period with one day of 'tourist activity', one day of going out and one day of just chillin'. Therefore for the three days.

- Two tourist activities (take your cities 5 most popular / 5 * 2)
- One cinema ticket
- One club entry

Remember, we're trying to get an index...not the actual 'daily expense'.