BootsnAll Travel Community

quote:

Originally posted by Dharker:
Spoken as a true English man there Craze.

There is a difference between the US 'States' and the countries in the UK - for a start in the UK they are countries - which is often a give away at the difference.

It's not the United States of England, just for the record.

I think if you spoke to any Scotts man they would tell you they fought for the right to be their own country a long time ago. As for Wales, just take that ride 20 minutes up the motorway and surely you can see it's an entirely different country.

But if that doesn't do it, try telling a Welsh man that that Wales is just a state.

Open your mind, it's fun, plus you're minds bigger that way.

It depends what you mean by 'country'. Here in these islands the word 'country' has a colloquial useage, we like to refer to England, Wales and Scotland as 'countries'. We english do it as much as anyone else. But that is colloquial usage. Officially the UK is a single sovereign state and officially recognised as such. So while I might say to people that I am from England my passport reads: United Kingdom. As Felix and Stoo point out the United kingdom has one army and one Foreign Office and one Prime Minister - a Scotsman no less.

The fact that the Welsh and Scots and Northern Irish have their own languages and identities is beside the point - it does not make them a separate state. All countries are multi-cultural to a greater or lesser degree. I cannot think of any single country in the world that has one monolithic culture (ok possibly North Korea). In Spain there are multiple regions with their own language and identity. In Switzerland there are 4 seperate language zones. In Finland there are regions that speak Swedish, Sami and Karelian. etc.

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I think if you spoke to any Scotts man they would tell you they fought for the right to be their own country a long time ago.

You are talking about events at the beginning of the fourteenth century. But England and Scotland became politically unified in 1603, and have been to this day. The devolution that occurred under New Labour in 1999 is not the same as political independence. You may be surprised to know that the majority of Scots and Welsh are against independence. The fact that they are still part of the United Kingdom is their own choice and has nothing to do with being bullied by their English neighbours. It is not a question of me or any other Englishman trying to claim their land.

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Open your mind, it's fun, plus you're mind's bigger that way.

Hmmmm nice idea, why didn't I think of it before...

Craze, are you one of those people who thinks that Canada and America are the same place? I've met lots of those on my travels.

And those who think that Africa is one big country. Oh, oh, those who think they've 'done' Indonesia because they've been to Bali....

I think at the end of the day you're free to think what you think, whether wrong or not, and I'm free to think as I do

Not that I put that much stock in Wikipedia but it lists the UK as four constituent countries

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituent_country

"The constituent countries of the United Kingdom are:[4]

* England
* Northern Ireland
* Scotland
* Wales

"
It may say states on the UK passport but it doesn't mean it in the same way as in the USA.

And from the UK Governments own website:

http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page823.asp

"The United Kingdom is made up of four countries: England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. Its full name is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland."

I'm an English man my partner is a Welsh man; we've spent the last 7 months explaining to people that they are not the same place.

At least if no one else does, Wikipedia and the UK Government agrees with me.

OK, Mr. Johnny-come-lately with the constituent concept: This thread is counting "countries", not "constituent countries". Selective use of bold font is not going to change that.

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At least if no one else does, Wikipedia ... agrees with me.

Uh, no. Wikipedia does not agree with you, which makes a distinction between "countries", not "constituent countries". Admit defeat, move on.

I really can't move on when people don't understand what a country is - even if you ignore Wikipedia (which I suggested to do from the start), the UK government points out that the UK is made up of four countries.

I'm sure for the purpose of this thread people can just say UK (if they're ok with missing out countries), but if you want to be right then it's best to count them.

I'll move on though, I'm never good when it gets to the black is white stage.

Stoo isn't Switzerland just part of that country Europe btw?

definitions of what country means

Ask someone from Gibraltar or Puerto Rico what country they are from and they'll say those two places, not the country which is the UK or the US. Beleifs like that make a definitive list difficult.

To those who say the UK is 4 countries - what is the difference between the UK and a federal state? Or do I get to count Belgium as 3 countries, all of the German Bundesländer seperately, or all of the parts of the Russian federation?

Not doing that, I have been to 24 countries.

quote:

Originally posted by Dharker:

I think if you spoke to any Scotts man they would tell you they fought for the right to be their own country a long time ago.

Looking at it that way, should Vermont, Texas, California and Hawaii be treated as seperate countries? How about the Confederate States of America? Perhaps more relevant to the discussion, how do you count the various reservations in the US and Canada? They are semi-autonomous and semi-soveriegn.

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As for Wales, just take that ride 20 minutes up the motorway and surely you can see it's an entirely different country.

If I walk ten minutes down Crescent Street here in Queens, the language changes several times as does the look of the place, but that doesn't make it a different country. On the other hand, were it not for the switch from imperial to metric units on the highway signs, it would be difficult to tell the US and Canada apart, but I wouldn't dare call them the same country.

It's a tricky issue. England, Scotland, and Wales do all have their own football teams, and Puerto Rico does have its own Olympic team.

If Wales is a country, what is the UK? If the UK is a country, what is Wales? They clearly aren't the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Dharker:
I really can't move on when people don't understand what a country is - even if you ignore Wikipedia (which I suggested to do from the start)

You can't claim that--Jacob G, in the opening post of this thread, line 3, links to wikipedia's "list of countries"--and not constituent countries. His post is "the start".

Maybe I could just pop down to the Scottish or Welsh embassy and as their opinion. But, oh no! They don't have embassy. Or an ambassador. Or a head of state. But...the UK does.

Countries have these things.

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Stoo isn't Switzerland just part of that country Europe btw?

Who's the head of state of "Europe"? Please define "Europe"? That's a pathetic argument.

The UK - one or four countries?
With no ties to either UK or any of the four countries, I'd say it's four countries, but one state (as a political unit).
In first place it's a lot of history to go back into.
If you go to Scotland or Wales, you cross the border, even if there are no border checks.
Each country has their own flag, football and rugby teams.
The Welsh have their own language and so do the Scots (it's either Scottish or Scottish English).
Scotland has got their own Bank of Scotland and their own Scottish Pound.

Switzerland has always been one country and nobody claims it should be any different, even though they speak four languages.
There are several countries (or states) in Europe using more than one language.

Another example hard to define is Åland, probably a place that many of you haven't heard about. Åland is part of Finland, but it's the only part of Finland where no Finnish is spoken but Swedish.
They have their own flag, own post office, and their own Åland passports. It's all despite that small group of islands has population of only 30,000. A Finnish citizen from the mainland Finland cannot move to Åland, unless he marries an Ålandese.
Despite all that it's not a separate country. It's part of Finland.

Take another country, Andorra. Their foreign minister is the foreign minister of Spain. Their military is the French army. Before Euro, their currency was the Spanish peseta. The population is about 25,000 of native Andorrans, plus twice that many Spaniards and French in tourist business. There are three languages used - Catalan, Spanish and French.
Andorra is a separate country, that is not even a member of EU.

It's all Europe - countries and states can make you confused - you'll find all kinds.

We need to tackle the real issue here... the differences between TRAVELERS and TOURISTS!

quote:

Originally posted by Joey:
We need to tackle the real issue here... the differences between TRAVELERS and TOURISTS!

Oh no...not that topic again!

Don't want to get into the heated discussion about "what is a country" for now (especially my country has been bashed by Chinese all the time even though they don't rule us). I just use "Travelers' Century Club" list of country tally.

So I've been to:

Where I'm originally from and live now: Taiwan.

Countries/Autonomous territories I've visited and stayed overnight in Asia: South Korea, Japan, Thailand, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Singapore, Cambodia, Vietnam, Indonesia (only Bali Island), Turkey (Asian part), and Dubai (one emirate of the United Emirates of Arabia).

Countries/Autonomous territories I've visited but not stayed overnight in Asia: China (only Guanzou), Macau, Laos (only a small island in the miidle of Mekong River), Burma (only the border town of Tachelik).

Countries/Autonomous territories I've visited and stayed overnight in Europe: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland (Shouldn't they be counted as one?), France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany (both former West and East Germany), Switzerland, Austria, Italy, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Finland, Greece (Mainland, and Ionian Island of Corfu), Czech Republic, Spain (including mainland Spain and the Balearic Island of Ibiza), Russia, Portugal, Turkey, Hungary, Poland, Serbia, Bosnia & Herzegovina (Bosnia-Croat federation), Montenegro, Croatia, Slovenia, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, Romania, Bulgaria, Ireland, Albania, and (Former Yugoslav) Republic of Macedonia.

Countries/Autonomous territories I've visited but not stayed overnight in Europe: Andorra, Liechtenstein, Vatican, Monaco, Slovak Republic, Republika Srpska of Bosnia, San Marino, and Kosovo (UN Protectorate).

The special territories I've already entered but then deported because I had no VISA (being a Taiwan citizen) in Europe: Gibraltar.

Countries/territories I've visited and stayed overnight in Africa: Egypt, South Africa, Islas Canarias (a Spanish territory), Namibia, Botswana, Zambia, Malawi, Tanzanian mainland, Zanzibar, Kenya, Uganda.

Countries/Autonomous territories I've visited but not stayed overnight in Africa: Zimbabwe.

Countries territories I've visited and stayed overnight in North America (including some Atlantic Islands): USA (Lower 48 and Alaska), Canada, Bermuda, and Bahamas.

Countries territories I've visited and stayed overnight in Central America and the Caribbeans: Puerto Rico, Guatemala, and Honduras.

Countries/territories I've visited and but not stayed overnight in Central America and the Caribbeans: U.S. Virgin Islands (St. Thomas and St. John's), Dutch St Maaten and French St Martin (they are in fact on the same island), Dominica, Barbado, Martinique, and Mexico (only Tijuana), St. Kitts and Nevis, Aruba and Curaçao.

Countries territories I've visited and stayed overnight in South America: Peru, Ecuador (Mainland and Galapagos Islands), Chile, Argentina, Brazil.

Countries/territories I've visited and but not stayed overnight in South America: Uruguay (Only Colonia) and Paraguay (Only the very nasty Ciudad del Este).

Countries/territorries I've visited and stayed overnight in Oceania: Hawaii (US), Australia and New Zealand.

Maybe it should not count but I think you should know...

Countries/Autonomous territories my planes landed at their airports but I wasn't even allowed to get off: Columbia (Bogota Airport) and Ethiopia (Addis Ababa Airport).

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Countries/Autonomous territories I've visited and stayed overnight in Europe: England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland (Shouldn't they be counted as one?),

Good point, I think we should have a debate about this. Oh wait a sec...

Countries where I had a haircut:

Europe: Sweden, Poland, England, Scotland, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece

Asia: China

Africa: Kenya

Australia, NZ

North Am: USA, Canada, Cuba

South Am: Argentina, Paraguay, Bolivia, Peru.

Countries I visited but will never return to:

Europe: Soviet Union, Czechoslovakia, West Germany, East Germany, West Berlin

Asia: Hongkong

quote:

Originally posted by moniak:
Countries I visited but will never return to:

Asia: Hongkong

May I ask why?

quote:

Originally posted by Joey:

quote:

Originally posted by moniak:
Countries I visited but will never return to:

Asia: Hongkong

May I ask why?

Ah, my guess is that moniak is trying to be clever ... none of these are separate "countries" anymore, though Hong Kong still has some vestiges of its former status.

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Ah, my guess is that moniak is trying to be clever ... none of these are separate "countries" anymore, though Hong Kong still has some vestiges of its former status.

Yes, upon further review. Duh for me.