BootsnAll Travel Community

Ok last night I couldn't sleep and was having a bit of a feminist moment while lying in bed and thinking about the injustice of inequality and damn it why can men do/get away with things and I can't!!!

Anyho while lying there seething in indignation a thought occured to and after thinking about it all day I haven't come up with an answer.

In many countries around the world women have social, cultural and religious customs that they should/have to observe where visiting. For example in Iran women should wear loose fitting cloths, a long coat and head scarf. Now I know men should also not where shorts their but that would fit withing a clothing restriction and its also nowhere near the same extent. Now there are customs which affect all people (like some clothing things) but I couldn't think of ones that are restricted to men or to a similar extent as women.

So. Do men have any cultural restrictions places on them in a similar way that woman have when traveling in many countries?

I can't think of any cultural restrictions placed on male travelers per se, but male travelers are affected more than female ones in at least one way in a number of places. Ask any guy who's tried to date a local somewhere like Turkey how things went...

I know the reason for this is cultural restrictions placed on women in these places, but your question did refer to travelers in particular.

there are certainly restrictions for men...I had to wear pants at the royal palace in Bangkok and had to wear pants in several other temples...

Keep upper body covered when not at the beach. And wearing shorts around town doesn't garner respect with the locals either.

But women have it worse, for sure!

Not allowed to be in the company of a local woman in Laos behind closed doors regardless of whether or not you are having "relations" with them.

Officially, I think the law just states you can't have sexual relations but you can be arrested and brought to a police station for questioning if you are alone with them.

One thing that you have to remember is that as a woman travelling in a socially restrictive country (let's assume an Islamic state for the moment) is that you get to talk to the woman. Men get (mostly) shafted on 50% of the population.
As a western woman it is not considered weird for you to talk to an Arab man. And you get invited into woman's areas as well. You get 100% of the experience.

Can it be more difficult for you to travel around that area? Yup. Is it frustrating? Yup. But you get double the experience for the hassle, so it's a trade off.

quote:

Originally posted by Prisa:
One thing that you have to remember is that as a woman travelling in a socially restrictive country (let's assume an Islamic state for the moment) is that you get to talk to the woman. Men get (mostly) shafted on 50% of the population.
As a western woman it is not considered weird for you to talk to an Arab man. And you get invited into woman's areas as well. You get 100% of the experience.

Can it be more difficult for you to travel around that area? Yup. Is it frustrating? Yup. But you get double the experience for the hassle, so it's a trade off.

I was just going to post something similar. Back in my olden single days, I liked to chase the local girls when I was traveling. This wasn't really an option in Morocco or Mauritania, though.

That said, there really aren't many cultural restrictions on males I can think of.

In western cultures, men will generally look out of place wearing a dress, but women can wear pants all they want. I get jealous every time I see a woman in a dress on a hot day.

Although not necessarily a requirement, men are often expected to give up their seats on buses, open doors, pay for dates, and die in a war for their country's ¨freedom.¨

quote:

Originally posted by whalewatcher:
And wearing shorts around town doesn't garner respect with the locals either.

Not where I live! Just the opposite, in fact ...

After backpacking though Europe I learned to forgo my New York Mets hat. I think most Europeans are Red Sox fans.

I'm definately over my feminist induced indignation that prompted this post but these responces are facinating.

I'd never realy though of the dating male/female interaction thing before I'd realy only considered that from a female perspective so Haci and Joey that was really interesting.

Prisa and Felix I can completly understand where your comming from. I'm an Archaeologist and one thing you become aware of very quickly is that when dealing with indiginous communities you get excepted into the womens interaction very quickly and if they trust you, shown womens sites.

From the sounds of it with the exception of the interaction thing, there isn't this mystery matriacal country or culture out there that has cultural restrictions specificly for men as apposed to woman. It's early days yet. Between everyone on this board (you could probley really bring it down to three of four people) we've covered every country in the world I'd still be interested if anyones come across some place that has cultural restrictions (similar to many woman have) that apply to travelers when there?

I can't think of any limitations culturally that affect male travelers that don't also affect our female counterparts other than what Haci said.

During the years I have seen literally dozens of women travelers getting shagged royally by local men in areas where I would get the shit kicked out of me at best if I were to even flirt with the women of those places. I have seen this occur in Europe, South America, Africa and Asia - so it isn't limited to the overtly restrive regimes.

There are more cultural 'restrictions' than the ones mentioned above. What about having to fit into the local stereotype of what makes a man?

- 30 years old and not married = gay (In many countries. Plus, no, I don't have an issue with being assumed of homosexual orientation. But there is a difference in this happening in a New York bar or in a remote Russia town. It can potentially be danerous.)
- not shaving = low life - came across that many times
- Russia: not drinking vodka with the locals = sissy (and you know, sometimes I just don't feel like drinking - believe it or not)
- Latin America: not wanting to shag the new local mate's female friends = very bizarre and most likely gay behavior

There are many more. Being a man carries a big stigma and often, to gain or maintain a certain respect, you have to 'show off' that you are a man. I'm not a chauvinist at all and it makes me uncomfortable to pretend to be one.

I think, sometimes women forget that men have to live up to as many stereotypes than they have to. Yes, most of them are not written into the books of law. But explain that to the drunk Russian in a train who believes your gay because your refused to drink with him. And he HATES homosexuals.

quote:

30 years old and not married = gay

Add "from San Francisco" to that and they are convinced! And I don't care for sports either.
In many places (Latin America, for example), it is simply not acceptable to be a guy who is not overly macho (but now that I think of it, I might add Winston-Salem to that list).

quote:

Originally posted by MLISS4816:
After backpacking though Europe I learned to forgo my New York Mets hat. I think most Europeans are Red Sox fans.

As they should be :P

Kidding aside, as Prisa said, I definitely do think women have a bit of an advantage in getting to know the local people. People of both sexes feel free to approach female travelers, though not necessarily male travelers.

It's true that men have just as many sterotypes to deal with as woman.
But i do understand feminist indignation. After all, for a woman, alone, going out after dark is a danger unto itself. Most men dont understand that. When a woman traveles alone, she often starts living by the sunrise and sunset...unless she meets up with other people.
But for instance, in certain parts of Africa I visited there were no other tourists I saw. None, zip, zero. There were no hostels and no resorts. Now--I was lucky enough to speak the language and befriend a woman in the local hotel next door--who happened to be travelling by herself as well, up to the city to take a teaching exam. But if it wern't for her, and if it wasn't for me, neither of us would have ventured out after dark.

Not to mention it is EXHAUSTING dealing with your personal safety every day. My god, always having to be on alert for some asshat with a boner. I've pulled my knife out before thanks to an overzealous Tunisian asshat at a local hostel (no tourists, just Tunisians) and had to carry it with me each time I went to the bathroom and left my room.
It sucked.

I've been followed, heckled, some guy tried to pull me into a sex club, another tried repeatedly to pull me into a covered doorway, I've been groped, yelled at, threatened, my door has been pounded on in the middle of the night...it goes on....

Sure 90% of it is harmless. But that other 10% can sure spoil a trip.

Point is, woman do have it harder. No question about it. Being assumed gay and getting threatened for not drinking sucks. Getting raped on the road (while not my personal experience, thank god, has been one of other females i've encoutered) is a way different ballpark.

It sucks, BUT I try to look at the bright side. We are easily trusted and therefore usually more welcomed by all locals. We also can assert our dignity and be treated fabulously by certain cultures.

But the whole indignation thing? I think all woman who've travelled alone have felt that at one time or another.

quote:

Originally posted by static:
(but now that I think of it, I might add Winston-Salem to that list).

Ha.

ElAidi

I never thought about it in those terms, but I agree with everything you have said.

Prisa, Your points are valid and you're probably right about the percentage of real cases. I give you credit for traveling to some of the places you've been as a woman.

Last summer, while in India, I only had one scary incident. At a wedding, I had drummed up conversation with an Italian since we spoke the same language. I came to find out she was the 'friend'/shag partner of a local man. When I engaged her and his sister in conversation (in no way flirting by western standards) my life was seriously threatened. I had to do some fast talking to calm this lunatic down.

That's one extreme case in a thousand, but they happen and you always have to have your guard up if you want to return intact. As a woman, you probably haven't had this problem - just dozens of other ones.

But isn't that getting to know the local culture?

Ahh, the joys of traveling and cultural missunderstandings.

Not so much restrictions as I mentioned earlier but on a train in China at the beginning of December the Attendents "discovered me" and I had to put up with touchy feely Asia people who insisted on taking photos with me and knowing everything about what I was doing. Not a restriction but it's the reverse of the restriction argument where we as travelers have to put up with cultural things that can make you uncomfortable (I'm not touchy feely at the best of times but when strange men want to put there are arms around me (for a photo with a complete stranger) and sit close I have to remind myself that the personal space thing doesn't exist).

But if that's the worst thing that happens to you great.

quote:

Point is, woman do have it harder. No question about it.

Prisa, no contest. I agree to 100%. And I seriously wish for all the girls around here it wasn't so.