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...and I congratulate him on his leaving.

I have no truck with religion. Don't understand it, but I understand why others do.

This is a sad day for those of the Pontiff's faith.

But the man did his bit...and mine...and a dozen other people's. I'm glad he gets some peace. I cannot fathom the weight of having MILLIONS of people look to you for the way they should live their lives. Not figuratively, a la Brad and Jen, but LITERALLY. That's a terrible burden to carry, and one that could be turned into something awful. But he seemed to do it with great grace and aplomb.

God Speed God's Athlete. Find your rest.

D

Yep....what you said.

Live in a totally different world than his....but don't mind sharing the same planet.

Peace.

Travis

I just hope he wasn't wrong about religion all these years.. That would be a worse outcome!!But we will never find out until we get there!!
I just hope my father is looking down on me from above and that he is in a better place..

His inspiration and hopes are something we should all strive to achieve someday...

The man, despite his religious affiliations, was such a strong, motivated and passionate individual, something we can all work to become.

I agree we should strive to be as motivated and passionate as he was, but on DIFFERENT subjects/ideals.

quote:

His inspiration and hopes are something we should all strive to achieve someday...

You know, Im going to get flamed for this, but I feel I have a right, as anyone else, to let people know about him. If it were not true, then ban me away.

But this guy single handedly influenced over 1 billion people, loads of which live in South Africa, and tried to erradicate birth control, subsequently leading to the massive spread of STDs in some of the worst parts of the world, and led to the unnecessary, uncontrolled growth of birth rates, which we certainly don't need in an age of overpopulation.

I mean, I dont know what to say to this. He did good, but he did bad as well. There's no way around it. He wasn't ignorant of the consequences.

I think the message the pope was preaching was more directed towards the nature of sexual relationships. His religion is one that preaches the virtues of abstinence to unwed couples. If people really did listen to the Pope's message about lack of birth control then they might also be the kind to take their religion seriously and hold sex off until after marriage.

Instead of crediting the STD boom to the Pope, I credit it to lack of education.

No flaming from me Walkabout, I agree. He maybe have been a "good person", passionate, caring etc. but many of the religious ideals he sought to spread or uphold brought harm to a lot of people. But then again, I don't particularly agree with "spreading" the word in any missionary type fashion period, regardless of what actual religion it is.

As far as I can see, Taylor hit it right when he said "despite his religious affiliations" - the Pope may have had some noble intentions/characteristics, and I have been told he DID do some very good things, but he was also the leader of an organization that has some ideas beyond my comprehension (I'm talking gay marriage, policies on sex within marriage, not like the concecration) and has knowingly subject thousands of children to sexual abuse... hard to understand mourning that. Even harder to understand my classmates who were EXCITED to see another Pope... A difference of 20 years or so in age is really not going to give us a Pope striving for change...

Anywho... let the disagreement begin...

Have to say I'm in Walkabout's and Tracy's corner on this one. As a person who has some SERIOUS problems with the roman catholic church (sorry mom & dad) I really can't find the man who led it for the past 30 odd years a hero or something. He was a human being and has passed away. Flaws and all. He meant well. Period.

(PS this post may sound harsh but all the gushing on tv is getting to me. Especially because if anybody else out there thinks the church is kinda messed up you can't get around the fact that the pope carries at least part of the reponsibility for that. And don't even get me started on the church's views of women and homosexuals which he fully supported and knowingly pushed to the forefront.)

who among us spent our early adulthood in the throes of nazi occupation?

called leaders of all world relgions to pray in assisi,italy on two occasions for the cause of Peace?

Karol Wojtyla spoke eight languages fluently and traveled to over 120 countries. I'd say that according to my travelers ethic, those two qualities alone suffice.

In his own words, a man or woman is not about what he/she Says, but what he/she Does. What do you Do? What do I do? Are you about Peace and Social Justice? Am I? Or am I am clanging gong. What am I doing to make the world better? more peacful? more healthy?

peace,
zopa

I saw him twice..Once from very close quaters..he came to Goa in late 1980's to see the body of St.Francis Xavier. I was struck by the presence of Hindus and Catholics alike who lined the streets to see him...I wondered why the Hindus were there? I don't know of any other relgious org which has a head like the pope...nobody with a responsibility to steer the course of the faithful.Big Job.

I don't think I agree at all with some of the things he preached but I have to say he did touch many hearts with being a compassionate man and trying to bring some peace.

I was in Rome the Jubliee year and stood among the thousands there who were so mesmerised by him..it was strange to see that somebody believed in another human being SOOO much I cannot understand that devotion to one person.I want to understand that faith....

Anyway, Peace.

I just can't believe all those millions of simultaneous prayers didn't work....

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called leaders of all world relgions to pray in assisi,italy on two occasions for the cause of Peace?

It is this kind of action by the Pope that seems useless to me. Calling world leaders together doesn't necessarily mean they came. And second, *praying* for peace did about as much good as praying for the Pope's life.

I am not saying he didn't act and accomplish things in his life either. BUT, much of what I've heard has been regarding praying, and little about acting.

As compassionate, diplomatic and understanding as ever, Tuna....

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I just can't believe all those millions of simultaneous prayers didn't work....

... this from the man who on the very night of the 12/26/04 tsunami, initially described it as, sorry I'll have to paraphrase here Tuna, "relatively insignificant".

Maybe those millions of prayers did work...maybe he really is in a better type of place now then suffering under the burden of an ailing body.

I too did not agree with all he said, but I surely had great respect for the man.
I am impressed by his resolve to do his job till the very end...he surely could have stayed in bed instead of making the blessings from his window despite the fact that he could no longer speak and barely breath. I wish that I had such strong character.

His fluency in 8 languages...well that´s impressive by any measure in my book.
And while calling for peace doesn´t make it happen, at least he used the power of his position for positive change.

We can criticize his stance on birth control, but I´d have to agree that listening to "no birth control" and easily forgetting he preached abstinence too part...well it´s just short sighted.

Anyway...
May he rest in peace...

Being bought up in a religion where there were only two sacrements instead of seven, and then later throwing religion coompletely out of my life (but not my belief in a just and loving God) I have to say like most people here, I disagred with much of what he and the church stood for, but how can you not admire the strength and character of this man who stood by his beliefs no matter the critism or where it came from. I only wish I could be that strong.

Oh and Prayer does work, on the same level that Buddist Meditation works.

quote:

Originally posted by Zopa:
Karol Wojtyla spoke eight languages fluently and traveled to over 120 countries. I'd say that according to my travelers ethic, those two qualities alone suffice.

In his own words, a man or woman is not about what he/she Says, but what he/she Does. What do you Do? What do I do? Are you about Peace and Social Justice? Am I? Or am I am clanging gong. What am I doing to make the world better? more peacful? more healthy?

I agree with Elis, here.

While I respected the man and his speaking out on peace, social justice and poverty issues, I find his message of respecting all human dignity to be at least disingenuous, if not outright hypocrytical when it came to his pronouncements regarding gay people. After all, this is a man who affirmed that to be gay is to have a "tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil" and the expression of a gay person's love is "intrinsically disordered." In addition, he also stated that the adoption of children by same-sex couples does violence to the children.

I guess what I'm saying is that when it comes to the Pope, speech DOES matter. What he says and writes ARE what he does; these ARE his actions!

And, also, pronouncements against gays are hurtful and harmful, regardless of the language in which they are pronounced.

Tim

quote:

Originally posted by Liz Giles:
I too did not agree with all he said, but I surely had great respect for the man.

His fluency in 8 languages...well that´s impressive by any measure in my book.

Amen sister, how can you not respect a man who believes heaven is a place free of homosexuals and non-Christian filth.

If I came on this board and told everyone that ONLY people who believed and worshipped my chosen deity would be rewarded with a pleasurable afterlife, and those who did not would spend eternity being tortured... you would all call me a lunatic and I would probably get banned.

Even if I spoke 8 languages.

Interestingly, on the website of a man interested in sufism is where I found a summary of the Assisi meeting. His point is, what if all the world's religious leaders met together to pray for peace and nobody cared. If you don't want to click on the below link, google "Assisi Decalogue for Peace"

http://wahiduddin.net/decalogue.htm

I'm a minister...protestant mind you, but I do understand the pope's faith. He was a unique person, and while he may have ground the nerves of some for his 'traditional' views, he did many awesome things that set precedents within the (Christian) world.

If I may share a Christian perspective for just a second: the heart of Christ was moved 100% by love for people. This is our faoundational belief. It's really not something that can be explained or understood by our logical human reasoning... but the Pope lived it, and made it his same motivation, and that is why we are so impacted by his life and home going. Pope John PaulII paved the way for wave makers in the church. I'm glad to say that I'm considered a wave maker.

It's encouraging to see people thinking about things they perhaps might not have ever considered a week ago... all of us...

Personally, it causes me to have a greater desire to live a deliberate and purposeful life, motivated by love and love alone.