BootsnAll Travel Community

I'm pretty isolated here, and don't really know about movies- because I didn't even pay attention to that kind of thing in the US really.

Question: I heard about this movie Babel with my ex-boyfriend Brad Pitt in it. It looks interesting. It sounds like something that would have been discussed here, on BNA, but I don't remember anything about it.

Is it good?
Is it bad?
Is it basicly good, but you're a snob, so you don't like it?
Is it just really bad no matter who you are?
Is it movie of the year?
Is it exciting?
What?
I saw the golden globes here last night, and the movie was featured on there, it looked interesting. I'm interested in BNA opinions.

quote:

s it good?
Is it bad?
Is it basicly good, but you're a snob, so you don't like it?
Is it just really bad no matter who you are?
Is it movie of the year?
Is it exciting?

It is okay
I thought it could and should have been much better with the cast they had.
A little confusing
Exciting in parts
It shows how interconnected many of us are.
Not movie of the year IMHO

Bostonbill is back!

I was wondering about Babel myself. I've heard people say it's sort of like an international version of Crash, but I hated Crash for the very reasons that so many people seemed to love it.

I may give Babel a shot on DVD because I like movies filmed in foreign and exotic places, but I've heard some negative things about it too so I'm not sure.

Man, I thought I was the only one who didn't like "Crash"! I mean, it was alright, but I absolutely didn't think it deserved the Best Picture Oscar. That's what the Academy gets for not asking me before handing out those little gold statues. Hrmph.

quote:

Originally posted by rawjer:
I've heard people say it's sort of like an international version of Crash, but I hated Crash for the very reasons that so many people seemed to love it.

I've been describing Babel just as such and I too disliked "Crash" for the reasons people loved it. "Crash", at best, was just an overblown after school special.

But back to the movie on hand, I was disapointed in "Babel". It portrayed the obvious and very heavy handedly, like Crash, and didn't "make me think" like maybe the movie was trying to do. To me it came off as an empty film that was trying too hard, especially with the Japanese girl's story. And as odd and unique as her story was, I didn't care for her or really care about any character in the movie.

I guess I'm tired of watching movies using the interconnecting stories technique, I'm over it! It was also rather long...I'd recommend renting it when it comes out on DVD, if someone else is paying. Haha!

I finally saw this movie last night, and I have to say, I'm still confused. I mean, what in the heck is the moral of the story? The husband saw it as a movie about the interconnectedness of everything, but I totally didn't come away with that - I left the theater thinking, "Am I supposed to think travel isn't a good thing? That the fannypack-wearing tour-bus Western tourists are evil? That US/Mexico border guards are inherently bad people? That if you give a Moroccan kid a gun he'll kill an innocent person just to see if the gun works?" Seriously, I can't even decide if I like this movie or not...

So - if anyone can give me the moral, that would be a good thing. I saw it as intimately related to travel, and I'm not sure I like the message it's sending. I think the acting was good, and the two women who are nominated for best supporting actress are deserving... I just don't know what the whole point of it was.

I liked Babel. And of course, the following explanation is just my interpretation.

No it's not saying travel is a good thing - it doesn't really speak about travel at all. And no, it's not saying tourists are evil. Nor is it faulting the the border guards or the Moroccan kid. You have to look to a "higher" (for lack of better term), more broad meaning.

Inarritu (director) I think is speaking to the disconnect that exists between people on a number of levels, perhaps dating back to the tower of Babel (and perhaps he is beginning his blame there). Early it is the miscommunication between the Pitt and his wife Blanchett, even though they are married, in love, and should be able to communicate. Then later he places Pitt in situations on a much more obvious and literal level with foreigners and non-foreigners alike (the fellow tourists). If he could just communicate to them all properly, things would be easier.

The same holds for the border crossing and also the Japanese girl. With the Japanese girl her miscommunication is actually an inability to communicate. I don't see her section as empty or uncaring at all - to me it was the most affecting and touching. In a city as populus as Tokyo you would think communication would be easy and available, yet all she longs for is a connection with someone who can <I>speak</I> her language. Inarritu slaps you in the face with this need using her deafness as the tool, but is she really so different from the rest of us?

Looking again "above" the individual stories to overarching theme, again it points to the loneliness and isolation of us all. With this view though, I think he's almost offering a sort of solution to all of it. If we could just see that we aren't alone and isolated; that we're in fact part of a global community where ones actions have rippled effects, we may not have to feel this pain and loneliness. Though it seems bleak and downtrodden by the end, I think seeing the connections and their effects, can lead you to see how important and not isolated we are to one another.

It wasn't my movie of the year, but I found it to be pretty enjoyable and a worthy follow-up to 21 Grams and Amores Perros.

Dan, that's a fantastic analysis, and very similar to one the husband's coworker came up with:

quote:

In discussing it with her, she really enjoyed the movie and felt its "point" was the challenge of communicating clearly and the importance of empathy, especially across cultures where language and cultural stereotypes dominate. The deaf girl feeling like a 'monster' in a hearing person's world, the Brad Pitt character's and his bus mates' inability to communicate with the Moroccan locals, the inability of the Border officers to listen to the Mexicans at the border, as well as the counterpoint of the little kids' ability to play regardless of their inability to speak Spanish.

This also squares with the Biblical story of the Tower of Babel - less with humans' intent on trying to reach God than with the confusion of "the previously uniform language of humanity" to prevent any future efforts to work together trying to reach the heavens. In the Wikipedia entry, the word "babel" is even parenthetically explained as "confusion."

After hearing from the husband's coworker and reading your interpretation, Dan, I actually like the movie. When I left the theater, I wasn't sure! Thanks for taking the time to write your response.

I hated "Crash" because it's tone was so moralistic and just hit you over the head with it's point. Because all the reviews said "Babel" was the international crash, I avoided it.

I caved in and just saw it, and it is really excellent. It's unfair to compare it to Crash, it's much better. I don't think there is a moral, I think it's just about how tragedy hits ordinary people -- things are tragic because they are in theory so avoidable, but people's own flaws get them into the most gargantuan messes. That and what SurfingDan said -- it's about how we don't communicate to one another.

It is a very intense movie, but I thought there was a lot that required some thinking to understand.

Anyway 2 thumbs up.

I loved the movie and didn't really think of why I did. Dan...you thoughts resonated with me. I'm just not able to think it through on my own like you did. Well done and thanks for sharing that.

I found tears welling up in me eyes many times. I felt for the characters and what they were going through. Maybe I felt some of those emotions at times *like* that before. Not sure.

Most movies that I see, I like. But this one was extra good to me. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this everyone...I love this type of stuff.

quote:

I think it's just about how tragedy hits ordinary people -- things are tragic because they are in theory so avoidable, but people's own flaws get them into the most gargantuan messes.

Bingo, and have you noticed how some of us who speak the *same* language can not connect with others appropriately? I love learning new skills every day. And one thing I'm learning again and again is how much confusion there is between people by default.
A different language, culture...even more so?

I guess I want to see this. Another thing I consider is because I'm raising a son, I'm intersted in something that might be good from the p.o.v. of a kid who hasn't seen a ton of movies done the same way, and wouldn't have that problem with it. I'll preview it first, though...as usual.

WARNING SPOILER IN THIS POST

Glad my post wasn't a blabbering mess - it felt that way while I was writing it

Christina, agreed on the tragedy view also. I think it ties in with the communication problem. If we could just communicate these snowballing tragedies could be stopped before the grow into something huge. The key though is understanding one another. I look to the scene when the Moroccan brother is shot and killed. All this was created from an accidental, play-time mistake. The father starts by dealing with it harshly and then later the policemen seem to deal in a similarly harsh fashion, with both parties never trying to take them to stop and understand what really happened.

There were multiple times in the movie that I had the tears welling too - it reminded of the feelings that were evoked while watching Lost in Translation (one of my favorites). I felt such a strong empathy for the characters in both movies because of the dire loneliness and inability to communicate, even to those who should obviously have no problem doing so. Perhaps that speaks directly at myself and my own loneliness and isolated feelings and why I enjoyed both movies. I do remember hearing similar disappointed and "over-rated" calls to Lost in Translation from friends. Babel, in the same way, I think speaks to all of us, so long as we are open to hearing what it has to say.

Good thread gang.

WARNING: SPOILER ALERT

I agree, this is a great thread, it's helped me get to a point of "understanding" something about this film... The only thing that still kind of gets to me and keeps me from really loving the movie is this - throughout the entire thing, I kept waiting for more bad things to happen to otherwise reasonably good people, which is kind of a crappy way to feel. Sure, some of the bad things happened because the characters made bad decisions - the Mexican guy trying to outrun the border guards, the Moroccan kids shooting at passing cars - but other bad things were the result of what shouldn't have been inherently bad decisions, just slightly misguided. For instance, the Mexican babysitter taking the kids with her to her son's wedding in Mexico... Not a terrible decision, except for the whole border-crossing at the end (which only went haywire, I think, because of her nephew's being an ass), and I'm thinking, "She's getting punished for no reason."

Of course, my discomfort with that element stems from the fact (I think) that we all make slightly misguided decisions all the damned time, and the idea that bad things could happen to any of us at any time for what feels like no reason is pretty crappy.

Anyway, that feeling of just waiting for bad things to happen to people who might not deserve them isn't a pleasant way to sit through a film. I wonder if I'd feel the same way on a 2nd viewing, since now I know what happens and (more importantly perhaps) what doesn't?

quote:

To me it came off as an empty film that was trying too hard

that is almost exactly how I felt about it. I just watched it yesterday. I'm sorry that I don't come to this thread with an analysis. In terms of theme I agree with Dan, except that mostly all of the character were trying to find out what was their language and how to communicate in it, rather than finding out people that could communicate with them in their language. especially the Japanese girl, and her story was the one I cared about the most.

however there are other things more on the level of filmmaking that really annoyed me and made me feel sort of disrespected as a viewer.

the parallel with Lost in Translation was interesting and the same reason I love it - the subtleness in her images, her screenplay, her dialogues and her directing that leaves room for the viewer to appreciate and interpret the images -is the reason why I disliked Babel. Babel totally hijacked my emotions by being extremely melodramatic, explaining things way too much, offering a story in images that were already finely chopped and cooked to a point it will be super easy for me to digest it. he gave me ready to go emotions, rather than a story and images that should provoke those emotions in me.

and I also found it pretentious and moralistic. since Iñaritu himself is Mexican and could be seen as a minority guy who made it in the big city out there. so is his writer btw. that's the only explanation I see to all of pointing out victims he does throughout the film: who the 'poor guys' are and who the 'bad people'. they are all victims. even when they are agents in the tragedy, they are portrayed as victims. Minorities are victims. That's the message I got (in addition to the disconnection and miscommunication issues, which I do agree are present in the film).

However, It's really really well make the film. If anything it should get prizes for the editing, including sound editing which are awesome. The cinematography is gorgeous too. It's just not enough to make a good film technically. It's not enough to have a subject worth debating, it's how you go about it that makes up for a good film.

WARNING - MORE SPOILERS IN THIS POST

I've been intentionally avoiding this thread because I hadn't seen it yet. But we watched it last night. (Well, we split it between last night and the night before. It is a bit long...but then, what "serious" film isn't these days?) Also, I confess I was watching it in the context of the Academy Awards, it being the last of the five Best Picture nominees I would see. In that context, I thought it was thematically far and away the most ambitious film of the five. And I give it points for that.

I also thought it was pretty terrific. And I think Dan's analysis is spot on, about how our inability to communicate and understand each other is key. And further...

quote:

SurfingDan said:
Christina, agreed on the tragedy view also. I think it ties in with the communication problem. If we could just communicate these snowballing tragedies could be stopped before the grow into something huge. The key though is understanding one another.

Exactly. And how the inability to communicate/understand each other leads to the sense of isolation which then leads to acts of absolute desperation. And when we act out of desperation, tragedies inevitably follow, large and small.

-The Japanese girl...her horribly uncomfortable attempt to seduce the police officer. How close do you think she was to jumping off the balcony before her father arrived?

-The Mexican guy gunning it at the border which ultimately causes the woman to abandon the children in the desert (to try to save them). The children almost die, she gets deported.

-The Moroccan boy ends up getting shot.

The only other thing I'd add is that I definitely wouldn't avoid seeing it for its "Crash-like" story-telling device. I agree with Christina and others that it's an unfair comparison and Babel is much better. In fact, after watching it, I almost wonder if it was initially three short film ideas touching on common themes and issues, that were subsequently combined into a single film. Probably not, but it wouldn't take more than ten minutes to weave the story-lines together. ("I know....the Mexican woman can be the caretaker of their kids, and...uhhh...the Japanese girl's father brought the gun with him on a hunting trip to Morocco. Done.")

More likely though, the random, arbitrary connectedness of the characters is intentional, and part of the point.

Worth seeing.

Just rented Babel to watch over the weekend so I was curious to read this thread -- but then I couldn't help reading all the spoilers Either way, now I'm looking forward to it and will post my thoughts when I've seen it.

hold on to your hats...a copy of "babel" has made it into my hands, and I will be back here soon with my assessment of it as a work d' arte.

I watched it last night and loved it.

What a great way way to show how important language and communication are to human beings. How much crazy stuff can happen just because of simple misunderstandings? How crazy does isolation make us?

I especially liked the scene with the deaf Japanese girl at the rave. It's total sensory overload and then suddenly ... silence ... and you experience the rave through her perspective. I never thought about being a deaf person at a dance before.

quote:

I especially liked the scene with the deaf Japanese girl at the rave. It's total sensory overload and then suddenly ... silence ... and you experience the rave through her perspective. I never thought about being a deaf person at a dance before.

I loved that scene, too. Really well done, the stark contrasts. It really amplified the "fish out of water" feeling.

man that movie is foked.
i had to ff it a few times cuz i could not handle the suspense and stress, like the little kids in the desert, holy shit!

i thought it was a rich movie as far as setting a definate sense of place. i got a vivid idea of what all those places are like. it makes me want ot go to japan. i htought the northern mexico depictions were right on. and man, life in the moroccon dessert is tough.

wow.

i was annoyed that they made brad pitt look like shit. what a waste of resources! its like making gerorge clooney look bad in perfect storm...whats the use of that!

zpoa