BootsnAll Travel Community

2 years roaming Europe? How does it work at customs?

I am planning a European tour (lasting well over a year, maybe 2) due to the large number of countries I want to visit (pretty much the whole continent).

I'd like to know how long I can stay in the EU as a Canadian visitor (non-working, non-student, non-visa status).

I know I'm allowed to stay in Spain (my first destination) for up to 3 months without a problem, but what is this carta de invatation (at the police station) they talk about? Or at least my online research talks about it.

After Spain, I'd probably enter Morocco, to escpae the winter in Europe, but I'd like to come back in, and do Portugal, Spain again, France, Italy (and probably in that order). This leg of the trip might take longer than 3 months. I travel VERY slowly, sometimes spending a whole month in a region, or city.

Will there be a point where I'd be kicked out of Europe, and have to head to North Africa for a while before returning back in again?

In Scandanavia, will I have to go to Russia, and come back to avoid the 3 month duration limit? What about in the Balkans, and Central/Eastern Europe?

How does it work in border customs for travelers/backpackers constantly roaming around Europe?

As for purpose: It's world travel.
As for money: I tell the custom's agents I have lots of euros, a bank card with more euros, a family credit card number for emergencies, and loving parents who add money into my account if I need it.

Learn alot about Schengen. There are many threads on this complex topic here on Bootsnall.

Do you know exactly which other countries you in intend to visit?

If you intend to stay legit, you'll probably want to write out a table with all the countries you intend to visit, whether or not they are in Schengen, and what their limit is. One should definately know these things if overstaying a visa, which is common in Europe.

To be nit picky, it is immigrations that you need to worry about, not customs This is a very technical subject and being exact with the nomenclature is important.

As for what do and don't say to immigrations officials, I'd keep it to a minimum, 'economical' with your extended travel history and flat out lie about how long you intend to stay. You having money and respecting the letter of the immigration law does not automatically grant you entry. Long term stays seem to be a red flag for officials. There are other things that are very important to consider, like your personal presentation.

PS: Love your traveling style

I'm planning something similar over the next few years, so have done a lot of research on this.

When you enter Spain for the first time, you will be given 90 days in the Schengen zone. After 90 days you will be absolutely required to leave the entire Schengen area for no less than 90 days. This means that once you leave Spain, if you intend to stay in Schengen zone for 90 days during your second time around, you have to remain in Morocco (or at least outside Schengen) for a minimum of 90 days. You can't just do a Visa Run across a border and get a fresh 90 days right away, which sucks, but is the reality in Europe. Scandinavia is also entirely within Schengen, presenting the same issues.

There are, however, options to find ways around this situation. Canadians are fortunate to have quite a few Working Holiday Programmes in Europe available. Of the countries you have specifically mentioned, France and Italy have programmes with Canada, as well as Norway, Sweden and Denmark in Scandinavia. If you are under 30 or 35 (it depends on the country), some of these may be an option for you, if not for working purposes, at least just to give you a legit status while there, and by default, give you a longer period of stay inside Schengen. Most of these require you to apply from within Canada, though. The most notable exception is Germany, which allows you to apply there, as long as you are in Germany legally. Here's a list from the Canadian ministry of Foreign Affairs of countries in Europe with WHV Agreements with Canada.

You aren't likely to be kicked out of Europe (though they'd be within their rights to do so) if you overstay your 90 days, however the problems come when you leave. You would likely have a stamp placed in your passport and a record made against your name, banning you from travelling anywhere in the Schengen zone for a few years, and there's a good chance you could be fined as well.

Hopefully you find some of this information useful, and enjoy Europe, your idea sounds awesome.

Ali

quote:

Originally posted by Aero902:
You would likely have a stamp placed in your passport and a record made against your name, banning you from travelling anywhere in the Schengen zone for a few years, and there's a good chance you could be fined as well.

Great post, but I strongly disagree with this point. It is in fact possible to enter and exit Schengen without any stamp, let alone a ban. Not all countries do exit immigrations either. Is it technically possible? Yes, is it 'likely'? No.

WHV sounds like an alternative, but like you said it would only regarding Germany, because I leave for Spain in less than a week. Not enough time to set-up WHV ahead of time in Canada.

Check this out, and tell me if it'll work:

-Barcelona (all of November)
-Baleric Islands, coastal Spain, and Andalucia (all of December) THAT's 60 days in SHENGEN.

-Morocco (all of January)
-Algeria/Tunisia (all of February) THAT's 60 days OUT of SHENGEN

-Italy (back in Shengen in March)
-Swiss (to escape SHENGEN in April)
-Germany (back in SHengen May 1st).

6 months between entry (NOV1), and re-entry to Shengen (MAY1)

Check this out, and tell me if it'll work:

-Barcelona (all of November)
-Baleric Islands, coastal Spain, and Andalucia (all of December) THAT's 60 days in SHENGEN.

-Morocco (all of January)
-Algeria/Tunisia (all of February) THAT's 60 days OUT of SHENGEN

-Italy (back in Shengen in March) completing 90 days in SHENGEN.
-Swiss (to escape SHENGEN for 30 days in April)
-Germany (back in SHengen May 1st).

6 months between initial entry (NOV1), and re-entry to Shengen (MAY1)

-Do you have a list of the new European countries joining SHENGEN immigration policy next year?

quote:

-Do you have a list of the new European countries joining SHENGEN immigration policy next year?

In the wiki link I posted above. Do read the entire vertical again...it's pretty decent!

OK, looks like Switzerland will implement Schengen 1 Nov 2008: google translation of official Swiss website

I believe the rule is best described as "90 days in any 180 day period", so traveling in and out of Schengen is may not have the desired impact.

If you swap Italy and Switzerland, then you can have 90 days out...alowing yourself 90 in before and after.

Sorry, but I don't see any dates of when the New countries will implemenet the SHENGEHN immigration policy. I only see a map of which countries are signatories, and which are currently implementing.

When will Hungary, the Balkans, and the Baltic states joing this policy?

Thanks for the info on the exit control Stoo. I've not had the pleasure of overstaying in the Schengen zone, so it's all theory to me!

In regards to the WHV in Germany, it appears fairly straightforward to get, even from within Germany. There's a link to the Youth Mobility Programme information from the German Embassy in Ottawa Here that gives a pretty thorough rundown of the rules and regulations.

Schengen Implementation Dates (From Wikipedia)

Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Slovenia & Malta: Overland Borders from 21 December 2007, Air & Seaports from 29 March 2008.

Switzerland: November 2008

Cyprus: Some Point in 2009

Bulgaria & Romania: Some Point in 2011...

Hope that helps

Ok, so for my period of travel in Europe, I have to consider Eastern Europe a Shengen zone, as Dec 2007 is just around the corner.

The only escape countries available to me as of next year will be,

Swiss, UK/Ireland, Croatia, Bosnia, Albania, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Turkey, Cyprus, Bulgaria, Romania, Moldova, Ukraine, Belarus.

All other European countries are, or will be by next year, under SHENGEN immigration policy.

The UK will allow you 180 days, btw.

(But don't even think of telling an immigration officer there you plan to spend 180 day 'traveling'!)

If you can spend 90 days there, then you have yourself most of your itinerary organized:

Q1: Schengen
Q2: North Africa/CH
Q3: Schengen
Q4: UK
Q5: Schengen
Q6: Balkens/Misc. Far East Europe
Q7: Schengen

And, it is all legit so far. Impressive. Maybe you could overstay Q7?

If you do intend to stay 100% legit, then be sure to keep travel documentation (ticket stubs, hotel receipts, etc.) Just because you are following the rules does not mean an immigration official will take your word for it. Denied entry at an airport is probably your most significant risk and what you need to worry about.

Remember, I am not fond of winter so when the winter months come around, I'd like to be SOUTH, or out of EUrope all together.

What should I tell immigration officers, then? My purpose really is world travel.

quote:

Originally posted by stormrider999:
What should I tell immigration officers, then? My purpose really is world travel.

Try to think of it immigrations academically, logically. Like a puzzle that needs solving and not a truth test.

The act of a person entering a country has multiple aspects. Us, as travelers, have a tendency to get stuck on our intentions, our goodwill, our finances, our plans. The country you are entering has its own laws, rules and regulations. And, the people enforcing them have their own mandates, prejudices and moods. And all of them are unnervingly inconsistent and incongruent.

Point is, you being 'right' or 'honest' about anything doesn't mean squat when you are one-on-one with an immigrations officer at that little podium. They are their to weed out the problems, the undesirables. They have the power, whether they are right or wrong, to deny you entry. They look for red flags, inconsistencies, unusual stories, etc. Part of the training, I would gather.

Most people entering a country won't have a mode of travel like you are planning. One in ten thousand--maybe fewer. You'll want to present yourself as a generic RTW Kanuck: "just passing through officer, I'll be out of here shortly, can you point me to The Maple Leaf? Have you heard of it? I need a beer..."

A very relevant example: A British friend (woman) had her Canadian boyfriend come out for an extended stay in London. He had just finished his master's and was just going to crash for five months at her place while he looked for a job back in Canada. Anyway, he was honest about everything with the UK immigrations officer.

Result? Two day deportation order--he could enter, but had to be out of the UK within 48 hours.

(There was a good end to the story...he fly to AMS, had a bunch of documentation sent to him, and reentered the UK by ferry. This time around he kept his mouth shut and didn't even need to show his documents.)

So, what I am saying is, tell them what they want to hear. It's not about you, it is about them. And make sure you have your "I am just passing through" story down tight. Avoid inconsistencies and unusual anything. Leave the clown pants in your luggage.

Make sense?

PS: Overstaying a visa is hardly a big deal in western countries...sorta like jay walking--know the rules that you are breaking, pay attention, look both ways, don't do it in front of a cop, and everything will be ok.

quote:

Remember, I am not fond of winter so when the winter months come around, I'd like to be SOUTH, or out of EUrope all together.

You're Canadian, right? Howz that working for you, then?

Either you are gonna be cold, spending less time in Europe than planned or overstaying visas while in Sicily. Pick your poison!

Remember that, at the same latitude as in North America, it is relatively warmer in Europe.

Will do. Thanks for that.

how long should tell them I'm staying if they ask?

yeah..I'm wondering about that too. What do you say to the customs people? Do you seriously say you're 'just passing through'?

Pick an unsurprising number. If you're entering on a tourist visa, three weeks to a month is not unexpected. Longer than 6 weeks is probably going to be suspicious, unless it's the beginning of summer and you're student aged, in which case any time frame ending around the end of August should work.

The only time I've been tagged for extra questioning was when my girlfiend and I answered the "purpose of visit" question differently. I said "tourism," she said "in transit." I had to produce an onward plane ticket to proceed. So make sure you've got a sound, believable, perfectly ordinary story if you're trying to do anything illegal.

Again, I concur with Neil

If you are traveling with someone, you all need to be consistent and well versed about your plans, who you are, where you are going, etc.

By "passing through" I very much meant that you need to communicate "this is a temporary stay". (The term "in transit" implies you are only in the country to take transport onward, as Neil used.) Don't take that above post to literally! Asking about the Maple Leaf at immigrations is probably not as endearing as it sounds.

Four weeks sounds like a good number. Additionally, having a viable itinerary with a defined exit to go with that date is good. Overland/sea exits can help you avoid the plane ticket dilemma. "I was planning on taking the ferry from XXX to YYY the weekend of the 10th" or something like that. Knowing the ferry company or route name or prices or having print outs would not be a bad idea. Almost as good as a genuine ticket.

I can't stress how important paperwork is. If you need it, you need it bad because they are suspicious or maybe don't like you. Supporting documentation, good. (Onward travel printouts, current IDs and cards from home, details of your next destinations, etc.) Contradictory documents, bad. ("Living & Working" books, your CV/resume, anything contradicting what you said verbally.) If you are unfortunate enough to set off their little alarm bells, they are going to pull you aside, go through all your stuff, and collect every scrap of paper you have for analysis.

And if I tell them 4 weeks, wouldn`t that encourage them to stamp 30 days, instead of 90 in my passport. Canadians are pêrmitted 90 days in Spain, but my experiece in Singapore taught me if you tell them you`re staying a week, despite the allowed limit they reduce your permitted stay. Singapore also permitts 90 days for Canadians, but during security clearance the immigration officer stamped 2 weeks in my passport after I told him I`d be in town for just a week.

I may tell them 4 weeks, but chances are I may stay the whole 90 days. SO that is VERY important.