BootsnAll Travel Community

With nine years living in Europe, and all the boarder crossing I've made (approaching 100, I'd guess)...never, ever had I had a variable length stamp.

Been detained, questioned intensively, had my bag searched a couple times. I've even had debates with UK immigration officials about the finer points of their own bloody laws. But if they stamp you in, then that is that. You are good to go. (Except, of course, a 48 hour deportation order!)

Immigrations in Europe is much different from Asia.

With the exception of the UK and Ireland, all EU countries I've visited use the same stamp, and they don't say anything about length of stay. Just has country code, port of entry, mode of transport, and the date it was stampted. The 90 days is just implied, so if they're letting you in at all, they're letting you in for 90 days.

For this reason, I figure if you weren't asked for your length of stay when you entered, and I rarely am, claiming ignorance may be a viable option if you get busted later on...wouldn't help you get out of deportation, but might avoid fines and/or blacklisting.

Oops...missed stoo's post before I replied. Once again, we're pretty much in agreement.

If they are SO against timed stamps, how can they possibly enforce the 90 day in, 90 day out policy.

If there is no date that says when I entered Europe can`t I exit after 300 days, and say I entered 89 days ago if asked.

The stamps do say what date it was stamped, but not when it expires. Well, usually anyway. When Malta stamped me last year, the numbers where the date should be looked pretty meaningless to me...all the other EU stamps I've got are definitely a date though, and I did get stamped in and out every time. See below:



I'm told there are lots of border crossings that don't bother with stamping at all, even outside borders, so for the most part, you can probably make up any number of somewhat believable stories about where you've been.

I'll refer you back to Stoo's comment about how overstaying a visa in Europe is a bit like jaywalking.

edit: Added image for clarity.

quote:

Originally posted by stormrider999:
If there is no date that says when I entered Europe can`t I exit after 300 days, and say I entered 89 days ago if asked.

Well, not that this will ever happen, but the burden is on you to prove that you were only in the Schengen zone for 89 days. They don't have to prove anything. They can simply assume that a.) you overstayed your visa or b.) you lived as a transient (which is also in violation of your visa.) It is on you to present hotel receipts, train tickets, etc if asked. (And Keep in mind that when a European hotel/hostel checks your passport, they make a record of your stay, and that record is filed with local authorities in an admittedly disorganized filing system.)

Be prepared to answer the following questions if asked: If you left the Schengen zone, where did you leave from? Where did you go? Where did you last stay in the Schengen zone? What about three days before that? Where is your transportation documentation?

Also keep in mind that if anyone really wants to track where you've been in the EU, in won't be very difficult to do so. So, good rule of thumb: don't piss off or annoy the customs officials. And don't make fun of their stamps.

By golly...do you wear clownpants? I'm worried...

quote:

Originally posted by stormrider999:
If they are SO against timed stamps, how can they possibly enforce the 90 day in, 90 day out policy.

If there is no date that says when I entered Europe can`t I exit after 300 days, and say I entered 89 days ago if asked.

You seem to be missing what Neil and I so patiently laid out for you more than once. <Sigh> Flash cards are next.

It is not about you, or how you think immigrations should work. It differs from country to country. (Thankfully, Europe is fairly homogeneous in a worldly context.) They've got their own bureaucracy and you need to fit their world, their expectations, etc...not the other way around.

The immigration officials in each country have their own special, unique, locally derived way of determining if you are worthy of entering their country. It does not need to be logical, fair or convenient. It does not need to meet your own personal definition of logical. Get over it. It's their fucking country and they can admit people as they damn well please. Your expectations of how it should work mean nothing.

The emphasis in this part of the world is on entry--if they let you in, you are gold. If not, well...you're fucked. Exits are so uncontrolled that it take some hard digging (hotel registration, train ticks, etc) to determin 'maybe'. It is possible to enter the EU, travel around, and exit without ANY stamp on your passport.

They, the Europeans, have got their own ways of stamping passports. (I hear if you lick a Dutch stamp one can get high...haha...) Again, they have a nice homogeneously devised stamp system, as Neil describes quite accurately. Like I said before, every single piece of paper in your possession is a travel document in their eyes. Your passport alone does not document your travel history in the eyes of European immigrations people. The can do simple math, too. (June 1 + 15 days must be...)

Crossing many land boarders, and again, as discussed before, can be totally uncontrolled--no officials, no computers, no stamps. Also, it should be clear by now, that overstaying a European visa is not exactly uncommon. Why? Well...I'll let you figure that out.

Seriously, storm, forget what you think you know about European immigrations. Forget what you've "learned" from Singapore. Forget your expectations, ideals and Even forget this entire thread!!! Show up in Europe. Keep your mouth shut, and wing it. (Just don't say "I have money, I'll be here for six months.") Watch, listen and learn from your fellow travelers. Watch, listen and learn from your own boarder crossing experiences.

That is, after all, how Neil and I came to our own mutually reaffirming advice.

You seem stuborn as *fuck all*, storm, and I can appreciate that being a stuborn pain in the arse myself. I like to call myself a 'kinetic learner' instead, but who am I kidding.

If you really think Neil and I are that clueless about the subject, then just wing it and spare us all the questions. (Either way, please do report back to Bna and share your experiences.) And we really do want you to have a safe trip free of immigration hassles.

i just want to know what to do after 90 days

1) go to north africa, to satisfy shengen policy or
2) continue traveling in the shengen zone, as if there was no 90 day restriction.

i prefer number 2, as we all understand europes land border crossing are fairly relaxed. if they don; even scan my passport here how can they possibly keep track of my entry date.

1, when you say visa, do you mean a shengen visa because i have not intention of having that.

my 90 stay in spain is a non-visa stay available to all canadians, without the need of applying for a visa. i;m not sure if we should call that a visa, it can be confused with a real visa - one you have to apply, and pay for at a foreign embassy.

and, i have no intention of standing out, but you are right if asked those questions, i will be in a pickle, but i can claim that i never traveled by train, i hitchhiked, and i never staye din hotels or even hostels, i couchsurfed. and i really do those things, in fact i canèt remember the last time i bought a train ticket, or stayed in a hostel.

it appears as if i can take advantage of my stay in europe, and overstay.

quote:

Originally posted by stormrider999:
when you say visa, do you mean a shengen visa because i have not intention of having that. my 90 stay in spain is a non-visa stay available to all canadians, without the need of applying for a visa.

As a Canadian, like an American, you have an automatic, paperless 90 day Schengen visa that comes with your passport. When in the Schengen zone you are making use of this automatic, paperless 90 day Schengen visa.

quote:

i;m not sure if we should call that a visa, it can be confused with a real visa - one you have to apply, and pay for at a foreign embassy.

A visa is simply a generic term for "official authorization to visit." It isn't synonymous with extra paperwork.

quote:

but i can claim...i never staye din hotels or even hostels, i couchsurfed.

Customs Official: "And what are the names of the people you stayed with? What dates did you stay there? Please write this information down, along with the contact information for each individual. You will wait here while we confirm your information."

quote:

and i really do those things, in fact i canèt remember the last time i bought a train ticket

You're going to have a hard time hitchhiking through Europe, and the Customs officials won't accept that as an answer for how you got around for 90+ days.

Trust me. If someone decides to to make an issue, you're sunk. It isn't likely to happen, but if it does don't be cute. The easiest way to piss off someone in uniform is to have a "you can't prove anything" reply to each of their answers. They will simply remind you that it is your responsibility to prove yourself to them.

quote:

it appears as if i can take advantage of my stay in europe, and overstay.

You can, and it probably won't be an issue.

Fuck me you guys are patient (and generous) on this one. Might be the ultimate Schengen Visa thread. Another feather in BnA's cap.

I recall banging my head against a couple of walls with a ....*ahem*....certain member on other topics a few months ago. I finally quit.

I just wish I had stormrider999's problem, which apparently begins with a bottomless pit of travel funds. What a nice problem to have!

Good on the folks providing all the info!

i don;t have travel funds, just travel luck.

and what factors or conditions do i need to exhibit to be questioned by these shengen guards.

1 - do they ask when entry was made to every canadian passport holder, or just ones born in a middle eastern countries or other places they dont like. the only thing i can think of is my birthplace written on my passport as tehran.

2 - how much more common is that i will enter, and exit shengen at any point i want, without question or answer with the guards.

quote:

i don;t have travel funds, just travel luck.

Oh. I guess I misunderstood based on what you said at the end of the post that started this thread. Have fun in Europe!

quote:

1 - do they ask when entry was made to every canadian passport holder, or just ones born in a middle eastern countries or other places they dont like. the only thing i can think of is my birthplace written on my passport as tehran.

That could raise red flags, but though I was born in Canada, my passport does have some middle eastern stamps - Egypt, Jordan, Syria & Turkey - and those never raised any questions in Europe.

At airports, you'll almost always be asked a few cursory questions along the lines of "purpose of visit," "length of stay," "where are you coming from," etc. Normally, if they pull someone aside for extra scrutiny, it's because of how you responded to these questions. Immigration officials are trained to spot small incongruities in your answers, as well as body language cues.

As we've said before. Calm, relaxed, presentable, and with a perfectly ordinary answers to the above questions, and you probably won't get questioned. Stray from any of those points and you increase the odds of hassle and possible denial of entry.

quote:

2 - how much more common is it that I will enter, and exit shengen at any point i want, without question or answer with the guards.

As I said, there's almost always a few questions at airports. Land borders are kind of random. I've crossed borders where everyone's passports get collected by a bus employee and you never see the guard, and I've also crossed borders with similar questions to airpotts.

If you're crossing in and out of the zone a lot - and don't legally live in Europe - the sheer volume of stamps might lead to some extra questioning. But for the most part, it's pretty relaxed and you're likely to get away with most things.

quote:

Originally posted by stormrider999:

1 - do they ask when entry was made to every canadian passport holder, or just ones born in a middle eastern countries or other places they dont like. the only thing i can think of is my birthplace written on my passport as tehran.

Few European customs officials will give two shits that you were born in Tehran. You'd be worse off being born in Marrakesh. What they'll care about is your attitude. Smile, be polite, answer any questions with a sincere and respectful look on your face, and you'll be fine.

Press the customs officials like you're pressing folks here and you're screwed. (As they won't have 1/10th the patience of Stoo, 2wanderers, or NTFT.)

quote:

2 - how much more common is that i will enter, and exit shengen at any point i want, without question or answer with the guards.

As folks here have said several times now, it is highly unlikely that you will run into problems along the borders, either entering or exiting. But a few individuals, even some here, have proved exceptions to this rule.

quote:

i don;t have travel funds, just travel luck.

We'll see.

I am told by people who have friends who teach in spain that they have not encountered problems with a few exceptions.

Do NOT fly home through England. They check to make sure you've dotted every i. They ask questions. Heck, I looked neat, and they gave me the third degree just because I had a one way flight into England. Plenty of money, contact name, and still the third degree. NO, I don't have dreadlocks, and had nothing to hide.

2. I wouldn't leave through the northern countries such as germany and holland. They dot more i's that most other european countries.

I was wondering, how does ireland fit in with this all? it's not schengen. does it go with the uk?

quote:

Do NOT fly home through England. They check to make sure you've dotted every i. They ask questions. Heck, I looked neat, and they gave me the third degree just because I had a one way flight into England. Plenty of money, contact name, and still the third degree. NO, I don't have dreadlocks, and had nothing to hide.

A one way ticket is a big deal when entering England, but leaving the country through there shouldn't be a big deal as long as you have your ticket home and haven't spent to much time there in the recent past.

Also if you are only changing planes there you just go from one plane to the other, no stamps or questions.

I've traveled around Europe quite a bit and have rarely been stamped/checked traveling between Shengen countries, though it's more likely if you fly.

All of my stamps are similar to the ones shown earlier in this post, but I got most of those exiting/entering the Shengen from the US or UK.

quote:

I was wondering, how does ireland fit in with this all? it's not schengen. does it go with the uk?

Ireland is its own country. They have their own stamp (3 months), and it does not count towards your schengen or UK time. The do have fairly open borders with the UK, though, so you may or may not actually get a stamp. I recieved a stamp entering Ireland at Dublin airport, but was waved past immigration when returning to the UK at Stansted.