BootsnAll Travel Community

What are the best modes of transportation when you want to get to and through Eastern Europe? Direct flights from say, Chicago to Moscow or St. Petersburg cost ~1400 or more. I'm pretty sure I could do better than that if I'm creative.

I was thinking Chicago to London (I've consistently found prices under 700 bucks, sometimes even as low as 250), and then I'd have easier, cheaper access to Eastern European airlines. Or alternatively, I could take Ryan Air from London to say...Germany or Hungary, and go further east from there.

But yeah, I'd like some opinions from people that have done some traveling in the east. How are the train systems? What type of prices could I expect from airlines? What ARE the good, cheap airlines?

I also have this notion that train travel in Eastern Europe is really shady, is that true, or just a stereotype from movies?

Oh, and to be more specific about where I want to go...well, Poland and Russia (I've seen pictures of this BEAUTIFUL city in the south of Russia called Sochi) would probably be my main targets...

You can probably find flights from Chicago to Kyiv for under $800 if you keep looking. From here you could get to Russia pretty easily. Getting to Poland from Chicago should be really easily as well although I haven't looked up the prices lately. To my knowledge there aren't any budget airlines servicing Russia (at least I know there aren't for Ukraine.)

Oh, I can help with THIS one! AerLingus goes from Dublin and Shannon directly to Chicago for great prices. Then you can connect to Poland with RyanAir or maybe even AerLingus again. Might want to check into that. I've always been happy with AerLingus. www.aerlingus.com

Good luck!

Hmmm...the prices I'm seeing total around 1200 on AerLingus. AirCanada has a better deal for getting to the UK (usually around 600 round trip, though I've seen really good deals at around 250).

What fares did you see on AerLingus?

Update of sorts (since I suppose I'm planning my trip now):

It seems that arrival in the UK will have the cheapest flights. I checked out various combinations of RyanAir, and I can get from London to Krakow for about 50-60USD, so that's excellent.

So, once I'm in Krakow, what would be a good way of getting to the neighboring countries. Specific airlines or some information about trains would be very much appreciated. I suppose I'd want to see Krakow, Warsawa, and then maybe a stop in Belarus, then Moscow and Sochi for the bulk of my trip. I might also be interested in going to Hungary to visit a friend.

Definately take the train. There are overnight sleepers between all the major capital cities. In addition to your list I would highly recomend St Petersburg (see review on my website).

Just remember you need to buy visas for countries like Russia, Belarus and Ukraine.

Another tip: try and learn the russian alphabet before you go.

quote:

Originally posted by Craze_b0i:
Definately take the train. There are overnight sleepers between all the major capital cities. In aditionto your list I would highly recomend St Petersburg (see review on my website).

Just remember you need to buy visas for countries like Russia, Belarus and Ukraine. Another tip, try and learn the russian alphabet before you go.

Я говорю по-русски.

Ugh...I just looked up the visa requirements for those countries. Ukraine apparently doesn't have any visa requirements for US citizens that are staying under 90 days, but Russia and Belarus are intense. You apparently need to make a hotel booking with an agency, then send that, an application, and your passport to the embassy. I wonder what the chances are that these countries will ease up on their tourism laws anytime soon.

So, I guess Ukraine is an easy option. But I hear it's got quite a skinhead movement as well, so...I'd be uneasy. Sigh.

Russian trains are the best in the world (that I know of), especially for long distances. Second class compartments are a lot more comfortable than the same on European nighttrains.I haven't travelled in 3rd class in Russia, but I have in Ukraine and found that to be a lot less comfortable, but there was a Russian woman on one of those trains saying that Russian trains were a lot more comfortable than Ukrainian ones. But whatever class you travel in, it's a great way to get to know Russians, especially if you have some notions of the language. And in my experience there's nothing shady about them. If you want to get somehwere the train doesn't go, marshrutkas are much faster and usually more frequent than busses.

In Poland the best mode of transport depends on where you want to go. Between the big cities it's best to take trains (unless you want to save money), but there's a lot of smaller towns that are only or best connected by bus.

I don't know of any budget airlines that fly to Russia either, but Blue1 flies to Helsinki and they're excellent. I believe there's a few budget airlines that fly to the Baltic states as well. SkyEurope and Wizzair fly to Poland and many other countries in central and eastern Europe. In my experience SkyEurope are far preferable to Wizzair.

The easiest way to get from Poland to Russia is probably Warsaw-Vilnius-Riga-somewhere in Russia by either train or bus. That way you can avoid Belarus so you won't need to get another visa.

Careful on the train from Poland to Vilnius--it cuts across a corner of Belarus, and US citizens without visa support will be guaranteed a hassle. Ask when buying a bus ticket whether the route crosses into Belarus at any point. Or, get a transit visa (good for 72 hours) for Belarus if going by train.

I (almost) always travel second class (kupyenny). For air travel, try Lithuanian Airlines, but like Seraphim am also partial to riding Russian rails.

Sorry Chelovek, no chance of visa restrictions being eased by Russia or Belarus, for US citizens, anytime soon. The US has very strict travel restrictions for Belarusian and Russian visitors, and this is basically a silly tit-for-tat. Having said that, it's not really that bad as long as you're willing to fork over some $$ to one of the many good visa processing services out there. It's really worth the money.

Don't worry about booking a hotel before arriving in Russia or Belarus. Just be sure to bite the bullet and stay at a hotel within 72 hours of arriving. The hotel will register your passport with OVIR, the watchful gendarmes in many civic matters--no charge. After that, you're pretty much free to travel in the country. You can either do this, painlessly, or do it yourself and burn an entire day standing in lines at the OVIR offices--no contest, it's much easier to spend 1 night in a hotel, if only for this service.

If you do not get your passport registered within 3 days of arrival, you can look forward to both hassles and a nasty fine when leaving the country.

For Russia it isn't necessary to stay in a hotel to get your visa.

You can get the invitation thru a travel agency. When you arrive certain agents can register the visa for you - just pop round to the agency office and they will do it.

I used this agency and would thoroughly recomend it:
http://www.ostwest.com/en/visa/visa-general/touristvisa/

You can get an invitation through the Russian HI as well.

While there is a skinhead movement in Ukraine, it isn't likely to be a problem if you remain aware of your surroundings. If you register with the U.S. Embassy they'll send out warden messages (via text to your cell phone if you want) alerting you of any planned protests. I wouldn't avoid Ukraine just because of concerns of racism, but if you are that concerned then you'll probably want to skip Russia as well because they have the same problems if not worse. I don't know about Belarus.

Speaking of Belarus and just for your information, the U.S. Embassy there is currently drawn down (i.e. most of the diplomats have left) because of current tensions between our governments. As SputnikLee said, it is mostly tit-for-tat stuff (as in we point out their human rights abuses and then they kick out our ambassador.)

You can easily get a train or bus from Warsaw or Krakow to Kyiv or Lviv. You can fly as well, but I'd count on at least $250 for that flight, but probably more. Flights from Ukraine to everywhere tend to be fairly expensive.

Well, yeah there are skin heads Central and Eastern Europe, but its not really an issue (unless, of course, you have a strange skin color to them). I have had a couple of violent racial related incidents in Chicago recently and none in Eastern Europe. I've spend about then same time in both places. All in all you are really very safe there if you are careful.

There are normally cheap flights to Ukraine and Poland. Otherwise if you are Ryanairing it the best places to fly into if going to Russia are the Baltics (Tallinn) or Tampare, Finland.

For what it's worth-- I'm brown skinned and was in Kyiv for nine days and had no problems. I at least expected some looks, but didn't even get many of these, or at least didn't notice. The ones I did notice just felt like normal tourist curiousity, or were stares from people who probably just like to stare, like the same punk kids you'll find in any city who like to start trouble. Also, took a 22 hour train to Romania and had no problems (had a fantastic experience though!).

Of course, as always, it depends on where you go, how long you stay, what you're involved with, how you act, etc. I could've just been in the right places at the right times. But really, these groups are just a tiny, tiny minority, and most people are very nice or at least indifferent--especially to an American. It's the imigrants or students of African, Asian, Middle Eastern decent that usually experince these problems.

What skin color are you anyway?

quote:

Originally posted by willis:
For what it's worth-- I'm brown skinned and was in Kyiv for nine days and had no problems. I at least expected some looks, but didn't even get many of these, or at least didn't notice. The ones I did notice just felt like normal tourist curiousity, or were stares from people who probably just like to stare, like the same punk kids you'll find in any city who like to start trouble. Also, took a 22 hour train to Romania and had no problems (had a fantastic experience though!).

Of course, as always, it depends on where you go, how long you stay, what you're involved with, how you act, etc. I could've just been in the right places at the right times. But really, these groups are just a tiny, tiny minority, and most people are very nice or at least indifferent--especially to an American. It's the imigrants or students of African, Asian, Middle Eastern decent that usually experince these problems.

What skin color are you anyway?

Black (as in, African-American).

I suppose it's not a HUGE deal (because I've read several reports of dark travelers going to all of these countries and loving it)...I just have seen some shocking reports on the skinhead movement in St. Petersburg, and heard that Moscow and the Ukraine had some strong movements too. I hate to let thugs/radicals dictate where I go and don't go, but it's always an important consideration. I'm used to thugs in America (there's quite a few in Chicago for instance), but avoiding bad areas in your own city or country is easy. Avoiding people that are spread all over the place and can spot you from a mile away...not so easy.

ANYWAYS, I'm definitely going to Poland. I've also decided to go to Hungary, as I want to visit a friend. Then (assuming money and time allow), I guess I'll decide between seeing some true Eastern Europe, or going to the Meditarranean and spending my time in Montenegro, Croatia, and maybe even Bosnia. I really would like to go east so I could practice my Russian and experience a really different place, though those Meditarranean countries are quite attractive as well. So, I guess I'm neutral as to where to go after Hungary. Right or left, haha.

Cost and ease of transport are big issues though...could anyone name and possibly describe some specific train or airlines that accomodate these areas (particularly the Ukraine/Belarus/Russian region). I want to check out a website and actually plan the specifics.

Thanks for all of the help, guys.

For airlines you only really need to check Kayak.com. I believe it covers everything. It may not check discount airlines, but none of them fly into Ukraine, Belarus or Russia anyway to my knowledge.

From Budapest you should be able to find a decently priced flight to Kyiv on Malev Air, Ukrainian Air International, Aerosvit, and maybe a few others.

Don't forget about the visa issue for Belarus and Russia though. I haven't gone through it myself, but I understand it can be difficult at times.

For discount airlines www.whichbudget.com. You can fly cheap to places like Poland or Riga or Tallin.

Yeah. I met a few black travelers in Ukraine. Mostly they seemed to feel safe and were happy they had gone. The general theory seemed to be that there were so many people around that it would be hard for something to happen. I do think many Ukrainians would help you, in the rare event that there would be problems, as most of them agree that the skinheads are full of bs. I have unfortunately found out that it can be hard to avoid thugs, even at home where we were attacked in broad daylight in a very nice neighborhood in Chicago (for no appearant reason), so it becomes easy for me to say that fear shouldn't stop you. But that normally someone will come to your aide, in one way or another.

Anyhow. Eastern Europe is still developing the cheap airlines.
Kiev will be the newest base for the cheap carrier W!zzAir but only domestic flights for now starting in July. From about $15 each.
Otherwise Estonian Air comes in from Tallinn (~$100) and there are cheap connections on AirBaltic and LAL Lithuanian (also both ~$100).
SkyEurope.com and some other are also generally big in the east.
I would think that you could take the train from Poland(for instance, Krakow) to Lviv and then hop over to Kiev on W!zzAir.
SkyExpress.ru is cheap and good for Russian domestic runs.

There are also a few good very cheap buses this site might help.

Trains well, they aren't that cheap, except domestically. They're not so bad, it seems to me that the trend is the further north, the nicer the trains, although Croatia also has some very nice trains. Some old trains don't have windows that open or a/c, so that can make them quite hot in summer. So bring plenty to drink (for instance Moldova>Romania I would bring 3 liters to be safe). Its important just to find a compartment most long-distance trains just have these (normally these are little secretions of 4-6 people) with good, nice people, the conductors will normally help you do this. Its obviously bad to ride alone in a compartment, since someone else unwanted to come in.

By all means visit St Petersburg, one of the most interesting and beautiful cities in the world.

There seems to be confusion about visas and registration.
Any federally registered Tour operator or hotel can sponsor a tourist so you and get a invitations from one of about 4,500 register companies. This a change as of June1 2007 when a new proof of financial responsibility system went into effect. All prior registrations became void on that date and a new registration required the company post a bond, cash deposit or other contribution to a fund that would allow claims by unhappy visitors to be paid from. The deposit for those hosting international visitors was set at 10,000,000 rubles or a little more than $400,000.
Foreign based companies do not have the qualifications so te visa services buy sponsorship from authorized companies in Russia. A visa service is a needless extra expense and risk. The tour operator or hotel provides a 2 part form called Visa Support; a Voucher and one in Russian called the Visitor Acceptance document. It is usually sent by email attachment within a few hours after requesting it.
This form is added to the application, along with application form, passport type photos, passport and consular fee to your nearest Russian Consulate Visa Desk.

Once in Russia, there are new registration rules that place the responsibility on the sponsor and not the visitor so the stories of fines for not registering are no more. If staying in a hotel, the registration is handled quickly and without any action by the visitor. If not staying in a hotel, a visa can be registered at the post office by filling out a form telling were you are staying. As soon as you hand over the form, before it is sent to the agency that handles visas and passports, your visa is considered registered. It really is easy. Some agencies will do it for a fee. This registration is supposed to be done with 72 working hours, 3 days if arriving on a weekday. Carry your passport since outside your own country the passport is your only valid piece of ID. Leave every other id or card at the hotel or home since losing them would be a hassle replacing them when you get home, and while away they serve no purpose at all.
Be aware that Sochi, for the original poster, is the new Olympic site so there is a mad-house of construction and it has always been a very pricey place to visit, but now is outrageous.
if going to major cities, book a hotel or apartment in advance, during the summer the odds of walking into a hotel and getting a room are very small indeed. Any hotel in St Petersburg or Moscow worth staying in is fully booked throughout the summer. Unfortunately for us expats living in Russia, the exploding economy has caused both St Petersburg and Moscow to be among the most expensive cities to live in or visit in the world. There are options however, such as renting an apartment that would allow saving on both the housing but also eating at "home" when desired.
Regardless of the costs, St Petersburg has more museums, theaters, palaces and grand vistas than any city I know of. There are 254 museums in the city on all sorts of topics, some are the best of type in the world such as the Central Naval Museum, the Hermitage, Russian Museum, the Artillery and Signal Corp Museum(the largest military museum in the world), etc. It is a great walking city, with points and subjects of interests where ever a visitor might wander to. It is very hard to get lost due to all the unique landmarks that are visible from just about any point in the city center. It is a city surround by water, made up of 44 islands and 600 unique bridges. Water taxis can be used to get around or as sight seeing.

quote:

Originally posted by Chelovek:


It seems that arrival in the UK will have the cheapest flights. I checked out various combinations of RyanAir, and I can get from London to Krakow for about 50-60USD, so that's excellent.

Careful wt Ryanair...although their prices are really low, they don't include the taxes and other charges. Check twice b4 booking as you might end up paying more than if taking Aer Lingus for example