BootsnAll Travel Community

Hi guys,

I'm looking for recommendations for a single burner camp stove. Weight isn't an issue as its going into a swing for my boat.



I picked up an ancient 2 pint kerosene (Portugese knockoff of the Optimus/Primus #1) that need a hundred bucks worth of fiddly soldered bronze bits, leather pumps and gaskets. Something modern may be more cost effective than getting this one operation. Parts for them are like trying to find hens teeth... shipping from three continents!

The biggest priority is that it'll burn kerosene (Propane and gasoline are explosion hazards...) and have flame control so it'll simmer. And enough run time for 2-3 hours for making a good soup.

Thanks everybody!

You want everything, don't you?

Kerosene is easy enough, but you want it to simmer *and* hang in that dealey-bobby? Simmering is the hard part. Those Optimus stoves turn up rather frequently, too bad I sold my collection of them last year. A MSR Dragonfly works on kerosene and simmers, but doesn't hang in that thingie.

Can't we just switch you over to an alcohol stove?

Among multi-fuel stoves I'd vote for the MSR Dragonfly as well.

I guess you could theoretically modify your swinging thingie to accommodate the stove similar to figure 2 here. Obviously, sans the hanging wires. But I am not sure that would be worth the retrofit either.

Alternatively, you could probably do as shown in Figure 2 and hang it from the swinging thingie. But, in addition to the poor ergonomics it might not fit in the space allowed.

Likely, neither would work, but it might give you some ideas.

Thanks for the ideas and recommendations guys!

Yeah, I want everything, and cake. (Which evidently can be done in a pressure cooker with the valve open!)

I'm not a huge fan of alcohol, flame is hard to see in the sun, not a big fan of burning hair smells.

Did some digging around and found an MSR Pocket Rocket being used on a gimble, with a little sheet metal bracket.


The dragon fly looks a bit tougher to retrofit, but a lot more fuel capacity and control. Reviews say its loud like a jet plane... may not be so great inside a boat. Will have to find one to fire up and bring along the decibel meter. I've seen 151 minutes run time, but no listing of the quantity of fuel.

Half: Does the bottle have to be laying on its side to feed the fuel line, or will it draw out of an upright bottle? Those are pretty slick designs in their own right!

Joe, its a shame about those Optimus, might of had to buy one or three off of ya! They sure are purty.

Thanks again... will keep you guys updated whatever the outcome.

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I've seen 151 minutes run time, but no listing of the quantity of fuel.

That's probably for the 22 oz (liquid oz) bottle at full flame. There are larger 33 oz bottles available. And simmering you should get a lot longer.

The main problem you may have is that you'd have to pressurize the fuel bottle every 5-10 minutes to maintain the same flame output. So, it's probably not something you could walk away from and come back 2 hours later. Of course you could probably solve that by getting rid of the fuel pump and putting in an air line with a pressure regulator.

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Reviews say its loud like a jet plane..

I guess it's all relative. The XGK is the one that really sounds like a jet plane. I don't seem to notice the Dragonfly being any louder than other camp stoves. And the noise certainly won't be as noticeable when you are simmering. It has been a while since I've used mine, though (short of being in the snow I tend to solely use alcohol these days).

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Does the bottle have to be laying on its side to feed the fuel line, or will it draw out of an upright bottle?

I've never actually tried running a vertical bottle (anytime, I have hung a stove it's been with a canister type stove). I am sure with a full bottle it is not going to matter, but as you have less and less fuel in the bottle it could effect the draw into the fuel line.

You can find out more specs on the pump here

Thanks Half!

Update:

Found a stove collector in London that had a box of spares, hopefully the majority of what I'll need to put this thing back together. (That is if the tank holds pressure, and I don't have to braze anything back together...)

Heading up to REI tomorrow to check out the cool goodies, and going to take the swing along to see the size comparison between the Dragonfly, as the Hipolito is freaking beastly empty and will never make it out camping.

While I have the captive audience, any brands of pots and pans well liked by the backpacking world? The kitchen grade stuff is to big for the swing. Its perfectly sized for a teapot, and thats about it. My littlest frying pan doesn't fit, or at least won't without some modifications, and I could use my Wok to put out any potential flareups. Life is incomplete without cookware...

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Originally posted by halfnine:
The main problem you may have is that you'd have to pressurize the fuel bottle every 5-10 minutes to maintain the same flame output. So, it's probably not something you could walk away from and come back 2 hours later. Of course you could probably solve that by getting rid of the fuel pump and putting in an air line with a pressure regulator.

Oh you are a mad man! Genius.

Lets see, one scuba tank, a single stage regulator... some air hose, and an air tool regulator. Drill a hole for a quick release adapter...

Eureaka! You'll have created the first urbocharged portable kerosene kiln. Capable of melting titanium pots, and boiling water in 12 seconds.

Put on your welding goggles folks, things are about to heat up. Care for some souffle?

Another vote for MSR Dragonfly. I cooked 2 meals/day every day for three months in a row on one. The whole time we ran off premium unleaded fuel.

Additional tip: If you do plan on burning a Dragonfly using "alternate fuel" for a long time, you should also purchase the Dragonfly Expedition Service Kit. It's like $30 and basically lets you rebuild the little parts that get gunked up when you burn diesel, kerosine, unleaded, etc.

Hey, Skimaxpower, so for the Dragonfly I take it your recommendation would be to use premium, right? What advantages did you see with it, or disadvantages did you see with the other fuels (besides the gunk factor)?

I just picked one one up for a RTW and I'm going to start testing it out this weekend. Thanks for the tips!

Hello,

I am a licensed Marine Electrician in and I have a lot of experience solo-sailing Southeast Alaska on my 42' Trimaran.

You folks are talking a lot about pressurized fuel stoves which are potentially deadly on ANY marine vessel. This is doubly so for a small stove. Triply so for any inexpensive stove....

There are specifically marine stoves and you should stick to them for good reason. Pressurized gasses can leak and since they are heavier than air they trickle into your bilge. Your boat is made for that to happen ! Unfortunately you won't be able to smell these gasses down there until they build to levels that can ignite.

Honestly -- this is a MAJOR SAFETY ISSUE in boating. If you want to use pressurized gas of any type you have to get a propane shut-of solenoid and locate the fuel bottle above decks. This is Coast Guard Regulations and just good common sense.

Hope this helps, sorry if it's not what you were expecting.

LN

Personally I like the Alcohol stoves, which work by wick.

quote:

Originally posted by Budds Abroad:
Hey, Skimaxpower, so for the Dragonfly I take it your recommendation would be to use premium, right? What advantages did you see with it, or disadvantages did you see with the other fuels (besides the gunk factor)?

I used premium unleaded because when you're only buying .8 liters at a time, there basically is NO price difference between that and regular unleaded.

Obviously, white gas (aka: Coleman fuel) is best in liquid fuel stoves. It burns the cleanest. Premium unleaded is a great option for when white gas is unavailable.

The stove did gunk up faster on "alternative" fuels, but for the most part, worked just fine. I did not notice a substantial drop in boil times or high-altitude performance (although I wasn't exactly using a stop-watch either).

BUT:
After reading Lauren Nicole's post above, I'd think twice about using a Dragonfly inside a boat. That sounds scary.

Hi Lauren,

Thanks for your comments. (P.S. Have you seen www.cruisersforum.com ?)

The Stove at the top of the page was sold by Force 10, as a marine stove up until the late 80's... when they "upgraded" their "Sea Swing" model to a throwaway 1 lb propane version. Go figure.

The Kerosene stoves we are talking about are of a completely different beast from propane. The multi fuel stoves when run on gasoline, white gas, Naptha... or other volatile fuels, would pose an explosion hazard.

Diesel and Kerosene, even when finely atomized, have a high ignition temperature. They do not generally pose an explosion risk unless there are other more volatile fumes in the area that ignite first. Diesel and Kerosene evaporate so slowly that the accumulated volatile fumes above the liquid fuel that unless it is extremely humid and windless, they do not build up in sufficient quantities to ignite from a spark, or even an open flame!

While diesel and kerosene are heavier than air, they pose a lower explosion risk than an inboard gasoline engine. US Coast Guard regulations do not require a bilge blower, or explosion proof alternators and starters... or even a flame arrestor on the intake!

A lot of bulkhead mount diesel heaters use the same type burners, which pre-heats the fuel to atomize it before burning. (Taylors, is a brand that comes to mind.) Same thing with those gorgeous polished brass pressurized kerosene lamps you see hanging around. The other type marine diesel stove uses a metered gravity drip feed into a furnace. Those are capable of burning solid fuels as well, but is inefficient in comparison. The commercial fishing industry tends to use diesel fired stoves, as they double as excellent heaters.

Propane will not be on my boat, as I've been scared by it. When I was in Norfolk last summer docked on Willoughby bay a boat exploded from a propane leak. I was watching the news, and the boat directly behind it had a fractional jumper stayed rig, like mine. They said "Willoughby bay" "C dock..." I about had a heart attack. It was one marina over. The fellow died from burns.

Not all pressurized gases are heavier than air either. Compressed Natural Gas (CNG) is lighter, and will dissipate. Its just hard to find!

Do you have any pictures of your boat? (I'm a closet multi-hull lover... don't tell the mono guys.)
My boat: http://pylasteki.blogspot.com/

Have any favorite spots in Alaska? I'd like to head up that way in the next couple years, keep an eye peeled for Pylasteki!

I know, everybody's fond of MSR gear. But there is one thing I have an issue with: I don't like plastic parts on my fuel-burning stove. No sir. Me no like. I know, it is very unlikely, but I have read and heard stories of Dragonflies blowing up because of a mishap that melted plastic parts on it. Doesn't sound like fun.

I've just ordered a Primus Omnifuel. Can't give a 1st person review on it yet - but I have generally made good experiences with Primus gear.

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Ok, I'm no boater but as far as I know, Propane is probably the safest fuel to use in this situation. As long as the line doesn't leak, and that can be avoided by a good short connection or an approved naval connection, the bottle itself is about the most sturdy unit I can think of, because the pressure is steady, and there is no gas in the tank sloshing back and forth.

Its also the most practical since you can get a good sized bottle to last you an entire voyage.

I just don't see loading up liquid fuel in a turbulent ships environment as being a very good idea, what with the rolling of the boat and all.

They put propane in cars as a power source. Wouldn't that make it as safe as gasoline, if not safer?

Butane too, but those little containers can be expensive.

I personally would go to my nearest boat outfitter and see what they had to offer.

After all, if you can't afford the proper fittings for a boat, it probably makes sailing less safe, and you DON'T want to increase the risk of a fire on board, since it is one of the main causes of naval disasters.

Hey Tortuga,

Propane works on cars because they are not sealed on the bottom. Fumes that are heavier than air dissipate out the bottom, open the hood and looking down you see the ground.

Propane is safe if properly installed, and vigilantly maintained, with an electronic solenoid that opens the line only when it is in use. The canister located in its own locker vented overboard. A leak, even if it doesn't explode is deadly... since we can't breath propane the boat can fill up sufficiently to drown someone who is asleep. Propane explosions aren't just limited to Boats, but RV's and campers suffer from the safe explosions, and aren't allowed through tunnels for similar reasons.

Houses don't have as many explosions, because they do not move. Their hoses do not chafe, and their copper pipes do not work harden. Nevertheless, it still happens, and isn't pretty when it does.

In the following link is a picture of the wreckage of what used to be the boat that exploded when I was in Norfolk.

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/stories/wvec_local_...losion.157e5d71.html

Thanks again for your help everybody.