BootsnAll Travel Community

Hi,

Am currently planning the third leg of my trip, Australia back home to the UK, via Asia for 4 months.

I've always wanted to travel to Burma, particularly because its where my Grandfather was posted in WWII. I have done some minimal research on the country and it seems a tad 'politically involved'.

A search on this beloved site only detailed a handful of posts from people who have been.

Has anyone any views? Much appreciated.

Con.

I've heard nothing but positive things from people who've been there. I spent only a few hours in Tachileik, Burma, and even in that puny border town I was fascinated by the things I saw. Bagan is supposed to be absolutely amazing.

I'd say, yes, visit Burma.

I'm a huge supporter of people traveling to Burma, as long as they are smart about it. You can check out the articles I wrote about in my blog by following the link before.

Burma is a very friendly country with wonderful people. The ruins of Bagan marvel anything else found in Asia (including Angkor Wat in many people's opinion.) It is an easy chance to look at a militator, Big Brother-esque world safely.

Do a little research and find out just why Burma is politically sensitive before you go. I think it will make you better appreciate what is going on there and angry that the rest of the world doesn't seem to care. Read about how they have had Aung San Suu Kyi under house arrest on and off for about 20 years now. Read about how she was unable to be with her husband when he was dying of cancer in England because of the government.

Burma is a very safe country to visit and quite cheap since they removed the law demanding you exhange so much money. Nearly everything that goes on there is pretty black market, so much so that it's basically the normal market.

There are those who say you should boycott Burma because you are giving money to the government that the rest of the world would rather starve. It's a valid argument. However, I fall into the camp that believes you can choose to not spend your money on government run business and meet the people of this poor country. You can let them know they're not forgotten and when you return home you can tell others about a country that has largely been forgotten.

I can go on and on, but yes, you should go to Burma if you have the chance. Just do a little reading first. In particular, try to grab a copy of Lonely Planet Burma. They have an excellent take on the situation and why they publish a guidebook for the country when many other publishers won't.

I haven't been myself (a trip this year had to be aborted), but my friend who went last year absolutely adored it. There are numerous articles on the Internet detailing the pros and cons, and how to minimise supporting the Government financially.

I still intend to travel there at some time.

I believe that Aung San Suu Kyi made herself perfectly clear when she said foreigners should not travel to Burma. I do not think she intended to make an exception for backpackers. Whatever the lame attempt by LP to avoid putting money in the government's coffers, you endorse the government the moment you hand over your dollars for a visa. It may not be much, but it is the gesture that counts. Why do you think that the government has relaxed the exchange regulations if they don't want to encourage budget travel -- usuallly followed by regular tourism?

As for supporting the poor locals, I imagine Aung San Suu Kyi has considered the pros and cons when she asked us to stay away.

Much respect to Aung San Suu Kyi, and I dont know the LP rationale, but in researching the country, I find several other sources that claim to speak for the people when they say that the military is much more well behaved when tourists are around.

And isnt there something to be said for giving your tourist dollars directly to the local people? Sure, the govt will get their cut, but isnt that always the case? Do you not travel in the US b/c you dont want to support the Bush regime? If it's anything like Cuba, sanctions such as the US and EU have imposed hurt everyday people much more than the leaders, and the support of individuals really can make a difference in people's lives.

Of course, the violent ousting of 11,000 Karen villagers from their homes by the military this week, doesnt inspire much confidence at the moment.... interesting ethical travel issue tho....

quote:

Do you not travel in the US b/c you dont want to support the Bush regime?

Not the same. The main reason for tourism boycotts of Burma is NOT, as commonly assumed, simply that the regime is one of the most evil and twisted in the world. It is that much of the slave labour, foced labour, child labour, forced removal of people, and much more, that goes on (as thoroughly documented by Human Rights Watch, Amnesty International, and the International Labour Organization, among others), happens precisely because the government wished to encourage tourists to come to the country, starting a huge drive to develop tourist faciliteis in 1996. Airports, new roads, hotels, and so on, are built using forced labour, slave labour and child labour - and entire villages are forcibly removed, without compensation, from their land, livelihoods and houses.

I wrote my thesis on this, documenting the extent to which tourism actually DOES benefit government owned entities in a way which is difficult to have any control over as a tourist.

I feel that there are many different valid opinions to be held on the matter, and I would not discourage anyone from travelling to Burma. As long as they are well informed, that is - I think thats the least we owe the Burmese people and their democratically elected leaders, right?

I myself would now like to visit, due to the stories I have heard and the many wonderful Burmese people in exile I have met and spent time with.

So my reason for posting is NOT that I would say "dont go". Its that some of the arguments that are sometimes use appear a little off the mark to me. It is not enough to simply argue that there are many bad regimes in the world....

the website http://www.burmacampaign.org.uk/tourism.php
has more info.

Yes, Aung San Suu Kyi asked tourists not to come -- but there are others in the pro democracy movement who disagree, saying that if no-one comes to Burma, they will be further forgotten... even more isolated than they already are... that sanctions don't work because they strangle rather than help.

From my own experience there, the people are happy to have us. Imagine if you lived in a place with a corrupt government and no foreginers ever visited. I think that would most dispiriting. At least the Burmese people know they are not 'left behind' because foreigners are interested in them, their culture, their home...

I respect Aung San Suu Kyi, but people, even the great ones, are not right 100% of the time in their views. Another way to look at it -- if she didn't ask people to not come, these conversations woldn't exist. People learn about the plight of Myanmar from these conversations... perhaps her request was a strategic one... But I'm going out on a limb with that idea.

Some money does go to the government: visa, entrance fees (to Bagan Archaelogical area it's $10.00 for example). However, many people have an income becuase of tourism. Whether they pedal a rickshaw or sell food on the street or souvenirs, or work at hotels... they have jobs in a country where there are very few -- tourism IS a way to help the locals.

I spent way more money while there with locals versus the government. To make a simple example... If I had to weigh the decision (only as it revolves around who the money is going to), I would go because in the end, I'd be giving the govt. $5.00 while giving the locals $50. Considering how little the people have, I think it's worth the concession.

Consider that some prosperous countries continue to do trade with Myanmar (Singapore, China, Thailand) -- this is what's truly supporting the govt, not the measly tourist dollars (there isn't a huge amount of tourism there)... I would think that those against visiting Myanmar should boycott visiting these countries rather than deprive the Burmese citizens of a few bucks. (one rickshaw driver I met fed his whole family with a couple of bucks made from driving tourists).

Also, I think the Wesern world can learn a lot from the Burmese... they are the kindest, most generous, and joyful spirits... even in the face of the police state they live.

One last note: it's totally safe and easy to travel in Myanmar, despite the corrupt govt. The people will greet you in the street with genuine affection -- respect their situation and don't talk about politics unless they bring it up.

I have only been to a border town in Burma (Mae Sot) but I would love to see the rest. I highly recommend an excellent book by Pascal Thwe "From the Land of Green Ghosts: Burmese Oddyessy". Thwe, member of the Padaung tribe (long-necked), escaped Burma and is now teaching english at Cambridge. For my book club, this book was the favorite. It will inspire you to visit Burma but also give you the spirit of it before you land.

quote:

Originally posted by Lost76:
So my reason for posting is NOT that I would say "dont go". Its that some of the arguments that are sometimes use appear a little off the mark to me. It is not enough to simply argue that there are many bad regimes in the world....

I hear what you're saying, and if it's true (which I dont doubt) those off-the-mark arguments are indeed pervasive. But thank you for your insights!

My friend went to Burma and met Aung San Suu Kyi, so I asked her, why does she say dont come but still meets with foreigners? (this was a while back, not even possible now I dont think) My friend just shrugged... *shrug*


More recommended reading: Amy Tan's "Saving Fish From Drowning" -- it's fiction, and it's got mixed reviews, but I'm not the biggest Amy Tan fan and I'm enjoying it. It's about a bumbling group of tourists who run into trouble in Burma.

In the end UN/US embargoes or self proclaimed ones (by the countries political parties) ends up hurting the people...the common out there.

I personally will go to Burma..will go there after doing my research on how I can spend my money with the people directly.

I do want to hear others say..maybe you all will change my mind. Doubt is though :-)

So Mina when are we leaving?

quote:

Originally posted by Madhu:

So Mina when are we leaving?

Seriously, I'm thinking January '07. You down? Let's go!

Seriously...hummm...tempting. I was actually thinking i mom and dad don't visit then I have to visit India and I was going to do in Dec..maybe I should think about Myannmar as well.

How long are u thinking? The American 2 weeks :-)

I agree with Skobb above and used his advice while there and a guide he recommended in Yangon. I think I posted some other things about Myanmar somewhere on here.

I was there last summer and had an amazing time. I know what Aung San Suu Kyi has said...but I believe that I gave more to the people than the govt (not necessarily $, that's hard to tell, although I avoided gov't transport, lodging, etc. as much as possible), and now I keep up on the Myanmar situation and I've even been active on some issues, which I probably would not have done before. I have brought awareness to many friends here about what is going on there. That has helped to make my short 1 week stay there more than worth it. Not to mention, it's a beautiful and unique place!

I have been to Myanmar (why people insist on calling it Burma when even the locals object it to being called Burma, a colonial bastardization of the majority people, the Bamar) ten times in three years. Only yesterday in Chiang Mai, I met a lovely american lady trying her best to help the artists of Myanmar by trying to exhibit through a non profit foundation paintings. The Govt of Myanmar is not interested in backpackers because of the very little money they bring into the country. Package tourism is their big thing and a package tourist spends close to 75 usd per day. and another thing, for people who know the inside scene in Myanmar, whatever you think, the money you pay does get to the government in the end through a system of bribes and "presents". Also, the so called "guesthouses" etc sprung up for the back packer trade are owned by people with some connections and you dont see any bamar staying there, they prefer to stay in hotels owned by well connected people. It is wise to remember that except for some well known figures, your chance of meeting any one involved in serious resistance movement is close to nothing. I was distressed to see that in Chiang Mai and the surrounding areas, the Burmese refugees especially the Padaung have been turned into human zoos. If you are interested in the welfare of Myanmar, do not patronize those kinds of places in other countries and instead go and see for yourself the most wondeful people in all of Asia. No one could hold a candle to the average burmese when it comes to graciousness, hospitality, openness and friendliness in any other parts of Asia. and they are very honest and in all my ten visits i have not had a single bad episode to report. I am not a backpacker and I stay at reasonably nice hotels ( 25 to 50 usd per day range), travel by plane and use guides when necessary. I do not seek out foreigners when i am there and i have not come across them since our paths do not usually cross. My advice is to go. If you need more information please let me know, as I do not check this forum that often

quote:

I have been to Myanmar (why people insist on calling it Burma when even the locals object it to being called Burma, a colonial bastardization of the majority people, the Bamar)

This is a confusing thing, the name, and I found the history of the country's name hereto be interesting.

quote:

No one could hold a candle to the average burmese when it comes to graciousness, hospitality, openness and friendliness in any other parts of Asia.

I couldn't agree more. The people are amazing. Go, if for nothing else, to experience how human beings should behave towards others (aside from those in rule, of course).

not read all above and have not been there but planning for a visit.
i also heard from people that this country is nice and locals are friendly to tourists.
well...gov is gov and locals are locals.

Go!

See my minor rant about travel to Myanmar at:
http://boards.bootsnall.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/4480...00734216#89500734216

It was one of the best trips we've ever had.

Ed