BootsnAll Travel Community

Being a very political person myself (= being very interested in politics and having an outspoken view on many issues), I was wondering if other travellers ever let themselves be bothered by politics when deciding upon their itinary or next temporary home country. Would you ever refrain from visiting a country because of political issues?
And worse, have you ever felt shame in your own native country because of issues like that?



I have the very unpleasant experience of being in a love-hate relationship with my native country Belgium. I love the cities and the sights, and the good memories attached to it. However, at the same time I am deeply ashamed about the political and social paths the country is currently wandering. Whenever the people I know here in Ireland (where I live since 2004) ask me about Belgium, the only positive things I can say is about how beautiful our cities are and about how beautiful sights we have. Whenever people ask about the society in Belgium, I feel a deep shame and can do no other than to say what I feel is the truth: that Belgium has become a racist hole and seems to target becoming an insular society where everyone not walking the line is considered unwelcome. And the most unpleasant side of it, is that this is how I really experience it, tell me what other country in Europe sees 30% of the people voting for a far-right party with ties with the former SS wing? I like my native country for the many memories and good sights (it was time to move on however, because I travelled inside my own native country extensively for years and have seen almost every corner of it) but since I left the situation has gone even worse and is worrying. When I left, Belgium was still a pleasant place, but mainly the last years it began to get seriously worrying. It kinda feels unpleasant to be associated with a place where racism is so widespread ; while travelling I experienced the bliss of multicultural societies and contacts with people from all corners of the world, and then to see a country I know well rejecting all of that is kinda worrying. It has not been any form of motivation for leaving (the situation was different when I left, the only reason I left is because after 5 years of constant trips within my own country I had the feeling I pushed as far as I could and that it was time to discover the rest of the world) and it is not something worrying me on daily basis. Just something unpleasant whenever I read a newspaper article on racism and think of how Flanders is embracing racist ideologies.

I don't think however general political issues will ever stop me from visiting a place, moving to a place, ... because it's just not that important that it should stop me from exploring the world and realising my lifelong dreams of travelling the world. From childhood on, travelling the world and living in different countries was a dream, and I don't feel like political issues should ruin that dream.
However, I must admit, being a strong campaigner against capital punishment, that I would find it seriously sour to live in a country with capital punishment and pay taxes to a government supporting this form of 'justice' (note the undertone of the word 'justice' in my post) -- apart from that however, politics are important to me but not important enough to stop me from moving to a place or going to a place. I want to see the world and live in different countries, like I always wanted to do with my life, and I won't let myself be stopped by an electoral result in a seriously fascinating country.



PS: I hope this thread may be existing and discussed in a mature way, on a different travel forum everything coming even close to politics is being removed even while no one was discussing in an immature way (which in fact means: censorship)

This is an issue that has come up in several threads. How do you separate the policies of a country you visit from the experience of meeting the people?

Some people go out of their way to do so. I take a more neutral approach. Unless the sins of the government are extreme, I still visit the countries.

Two countries I would not visit at this moment?

One: Serbia. I had the chance and skipped it. I had seen too much destruction of Bosnia wreaked by the Serbians willfully and with malice aforethought to want to give the country money.

Two: Sudan. What they're doing to their own people is beyond inhumane, and could be considered genocide.

Aside from these stand out examples, there are few countries I haven't visited for ethical reasons. There are countries I won't visit again, for similar reasons, but that's another issue. I visited them once, at least.

I did visit Belgium and found little wrong with it, people wise. I did find it a little depressing to walk on sand and pebbles in place of sidewalks, but what can one do? In comparison to the pretty dutch red bricks, that sand and pebble sidewalk just doesn't compare!!!

Politics has severely decreased my interest in visiting a few places. Sometimes when I tell people this when talking about travel, they think I should be able to separate the political from the personal, but for me that's just not possible.

China:Just doesn't appeal to me in any way. I've been once before, but was unable to take advantage of many opportunities for a range of reasons. The main political reasons are the persecution of political dissenters and widespread cencorship by the government. I would feel as though I was condoning the executions and discriminaation just by visiting.

Japan: Though many of my friends are in love with japan and it would be easy to find someone to go with, the continued private support for a discriminatory caste system puts me off.

USA: I've never been a huge fan of the US government's policies, but i've generally thought i could separate that from the people. It was actually after seeing Borat last week that I was put off my planned adventure into middle America next year. I still want to go to either coast, but i'm going to halve the length of my time in the US. I know most Americans are great, and many are truely fantastic people, but I don't want my trip to be soured by a bad experience.

Emm

Myanmar/Burma is off my agenda as I agree with Aung San Suu Kyi's sentiment that travelling there serves to justify the junta. Where backpackers lead today, mainstream tourism follows tomorrow.

The regime would love a slice of Thailand's tourism pie, and visa restrictions/fees were relaxed around the time I was in SE Asia (a year ago). The debate rages, but even though the Lonely Planet has a point (support local enterprise--not regime-run establishments), travelling there still amounts to an official acknowledgement of the status quo.

As for other countries: I haven't thought of this much as I have no plans to travel to any conflict zones, but with the crap that Tony Blair is getting up to, it would be hypocritical to rule out travel to the USA or Australia (with its unsavoury refugee politics). I actually want to emigrate to Australia, and I will have to consider this matter more carefully.

quote:

Originally posted by EmmaEgg:
It was actually after seeing Borat last week that I was put off my planned adventure into middle America next year. I still want to go to either coast, but i'm going to halve the length of my time in the US. I know most Americans are great, and many are truely fantastic people, but I don't want my trip to be soured by a bad experience.

Emm

Dear Ms EmmaEgg, Please reconsider. I fear if you just do the coasts you won't get the full picture of American culture, you'll be missing out on the desert SW, real southern food, real American BBQ, the sense of scale here, etc. Just keep in mind that Sacha Baron Cohen went looking for provocative encounters. Yes those people exist, yes many have no fashion sense, but you need not engage with any jerks unless you want to, just talk to the nice friendly people.

I'd like to echo Christina. Judging America by the idiots that Cohen found would be a mistake nearly equal to judging Kazakhstan on his character's behavior. And quite frankly the midwest has no monopoly on morons. They are also found on both coasts of our country and really every other country I've ever been to or heard of. I admit there are some stupid people who live in America but I'd like to think the rest of us balance them out.

Midwest is also known for their amazing hospitality and kindness. I hope you go there for a chance to judge for yourself.

I know that Cohen found the craziest of the craziest in order to make the movie more amusing, and i know that most people in middle america are probably really lovely people. I lived in southern Alberta, Canada (often refered to as the Texas of the north) for half a year and i know that i can get on well with people that don't share my political views.
But i'll be 18/19 and travelling by myself, so part of it is actually a safety thing as well. The fact that there are so many guns in america truely scares me.

When I mentioned on one of the forums a while ago that i wanted to go to the US, quite a few people tried to discourage me, so it's nice to hear that some people want to stick up for the US.

emm

quote:

Originally posted by Callilucy:
I'd like to echo Christina. Judging America by the idiots that Cohen found would be a mistake nearly equal to judging Kazakhstan on his character's behavior.

well said.

Everywhere there will be people you dont get along with. If you travel exclusively to meet people, and nothing else, i guess i wouldnt come to the US, but i wouldnt go anywhere to do that..

The only guns ive seen here are the ones ive held, shot, or owned. Its not like there are people walking around with assault rifles under their arms, and shooting off their pistols into the air whenever they get excited!

quote:

Originally posted by EmmaEgg:
I lived in southern Alberta, Canada (often refered to as the Texas of the north) for half a year and i know that i can get on well with people that don't share my political views.

Not all americans think alike... Just like most anywhere else, there are endless idealogies, standpoints, and ways of life. Perhaps more here than in many other places. Certainly dont judge us from a movie, a comedy above all! I will say some towns have high concentrations of... difficulties (to put it nicely ). Places like highlands ranch, in colorado, but thats true anywhere. I guess for me, i go to see the difference in the land, the energy. People of the area are only an added bonus.

and for my contribution to the thread.. There is no place i would exclude for political reasons. The only reason i wouldnt go someplace is if it was a warzone. Or if i couldnt take my dog there... She goes where i go

quote:

Originally posted by EmmaEgg:
But i'll be 18/19 and travelling by myself, so part of it is actually a safety thing as well. The fact that there are so many guns in america truely scares me.

Hmm, well that is a different consideration.

I really don't think you're likely to encounter having a gun pointed at you here. I know the US is different from a lot of countries in having more gun availability, but if you avoid wandering gang-run neighborhoods late at night and stay away from Dick Cheney it's highly unlikely you're going to be getting caught in gun crossfire.

Crossing the U.S. on your own may be a bit more challenging/not so much fun as travelling in other parts of the world, so I get it if you just don't think you want to sit on Greyhound for hours and hours. And both Amtrak tickets and car rentals will be expensive. Though some options for you could be a cost-efficient monthly Amtrak pass, which would allow you to meet and chat up a whole wide range of Americans, or fly budget airlines to select cities, or arrange rides on Craigslist's rideshare boards to go city to city.

Anyway, not to keep on ... it is your right to choose the places you think you'll have the most fun in. You might really like the middle of the US, but perhaps you rightly sense you'd rather be somewhere else right now.

I myself have Myanmar/Burma on the list of places I wouldn't visit (not like I'm headed there anyway). But the difference between Burma and any number of countries (including my own) that engage in human rights abuses is that a Burmese opposition leader -- Aung San Suu Kyi -- has specificly called for this kind of boycott to make a point.

Iran, I'd really love to go to Iran one day. However my (American) and their (Iranian) government make that insanely difficult

quote:

Originally posted by EmmaEgg:
I know that Cohen found the craziest of the craziest in order to make the movie more amusing, and i know that most people in middle america are probably really lovely people. I lived in southern Alberta, Canada (often refered to as the Texas of the north) for half a year and i know that i can get on well with people that don't share my political views.
But i'll be 18/19 and travelling by myself, so part of it is actually a safety thing as well. The fact that there are so many guns in america truely scares me.

When I mentioned on one of the forums a while ago that i wanted to go to the US, quite a few people tried to discourage me, so it's nice to hear that some people want to stick up for the US.

emm

As a European having just spent 6 months in the US I can honestly say that the only people I have seen with guns were police officers. However, I must add I was confined to the eastcoast, I've been from Montreal to Miami and a lot in between.

quote:

Originally posted by jaydeschizo:

As a European having just spent 6 months in the US I can honestly say that the only people I have seen with guns were police officers. However, I must add I was confined to the eastcoast, I've been from Montreal to Miami and a lot in between.

Well, if you were going to see a gun during your trip, it would've been in Miami.

I think it is important, however, for others to see that the average American life is entirely different than that depicted by film studios and television, and that "American culture" is an extremely illusive animal. It is a nation of immigrants, and thus is privy to the combined virtues, vices, views, and ideologies of the world entire. It is impossible to pigeon whole a society of that size and scope.

Back to topic...

I haven't yet abstained from traveling for political reasons. (After visiting certain parts of Washington DC, however, I sometimes wish I had.)

I won't go to Columbia because Irish people were caught up in a scandal there a few years ago. Don't even think we're allowed there at the moment.

I know a LOT of people who won't go to North America until Bush is out of office and they change a lot things. I see where they're coming from but I still visited in 2004.

quote:

Originally posted by cybersusst:
I know a LOT of people who won't go to North America until Bush is out of office and they change a lot of things.

Like what? The drapes? Too frilly?

quote:

I won't go to Columbia because Irish people were caught up in a scandal there a few years ago. Don't even think we're allowed there at the moment.

But the gorge is very nice this time of year!

Certainly the political situation in a country will have a big impact on a travel itinerary. Beyond the "it's not safe" category, there are other reasons to avoid places. Being gay, I'm not going to visit Saudi Arabia, Iran or Pakistan any time soon, thanks to their human rights abuses. But I will be heading to Egypt on my RTW, but I consider it a more "enlightened" country than the others I mentioned.

quote:

Originally posted by Mahlerite: Being gay, I'm not going to visit Saudi Arabia, Iran or Pakistan any time soon, thanks to their human rights abuses. But I will be heading to Egypt on my RTW, but I consider it a more "enlightened" country than the others I mentioned.

I hope you're not disappointed, but besides a strong homosexual underground amongst the upper-middle class and the literati, Egyptian society isn't any more "enlightened" than Saudi Arabia. This is the same country that gave birth to Sayyid Qutb and the Muslim Brotherhood:

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/03/01/egypt7735.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/crossing_continents/1858469.stm

quote:

Originally posted by Continental Op:
I hope you're not disappointed, but besides a strong homosexual underground amongst the upper-middle class and the literati, Egyptian society isn't any more "enlightened" than Saudi Arabia. This is the same country that gave birth to Sayyid Qutb and the Muslim Brotherhood:

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2004/03/01/egypt7735.htm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/crossing_continents/1858469.stm

Yes, I was aware. That's why I put enlightened in quotes. Homosexuality is de jure legal in Egypt, and from what I understand completely tolerated for foreign tourists (the power of the pink dollar, it is said). The same cannot be said for places like SA, where I could be put to death if it is known I'm gay.

It's still a horrendous situation, but I'm resigned to the fact that a large portion of the world where I wish to travel is simply hostile to open homosexuality.

quote:

Originally posted by Mahlerite:
Yes, I was aware...but I'm resigned to the fact that a large portion of the world where I wish to travel is simply hostile to open homosexuality.

Best of luck to you then, and enjoy yourself. Egypt can be a great ride. Just keep in mind, no matter how friendly and inviting certain areas in Cairo may seem, being American and gay is already two strikes against you there. Don't let lack of situational awareness be the third. (Not to sound too preachy, just friendly advice. )