BootsnAll Travel Community

hey folks.

namaste.

so, i have just kind of cobbled together my own understanding of Hinduism over the years, helped along by viewing the artwork in local indian restaurants, dating a hindu man for 3 years, reading free paperbacks given out by the hare krishnas, viewing ancient art in museums, reading a few pages out of the lonely planet, attending Diwali festivals every year, you get the picture.

what i am looking for now is a few things...some recommendations on how to learn more about Hinduism as it is understood by people today, and something i can read or peruse that is an interesting read but not terribly academic and dense and thus yawn-inducing.

my first question, if anybody here can help (and yes, i know i could always just it, but i like the human touch)...can someone explain to me the "ghats" as in the river landings? are all rivers considering to be sacred?

i know i may sound ignorant to the more learned among you, but hell, i am ignorant and i want to learn more...

geez, im afraid we are gonna crash the bootsnall server with all the posts this one has gotten.

guess i'll have to just wikipedia "hinduism" unless somebody comes up with somethin'.

self-educating,
zopa

Hey Zopa

In Hindi, 'Ghat' simply means step.

Not all rivers are sacred but some do carry more significance than other.

All the best
Smuggs

Zopa,

Hinduism is like many religions. You can skate on the surface of appearances and rituals, or you can delve deeper into the meanings of those rituals, and the meanings behind them.

It consists, like all religions, of a basic code of rituals that cover all of daily life. It is said that many Indians, even modern, are extremely superstitious and go to their priest on advice for almost everything important.

Beneath that cover is a set of philosophical books that go back thousands of years. the Bhavahagad-Vita is one such book. The Ramayana is another long and instructional tale. Another good source, accurate yet passionate, is the Vivikenanda Institute, whose mission it is to explain esoteric Hinduism to the masses.

If you want a good start, look for Joseph Campbell, who knew the Buddhist/hindu axioms so well he was respected by experts in the field. He also wrote extremely well. YOu might try his travel book that he wrote after he went to India. It explained a lot to me, that's for sure.

If you want another take on a devotional form of Hinduism, you can try to talk to the Krishnas, who worship Brahma in a particular devotional fashion, one of the accepted ways to understand Brahma, which is considered a form, the form of the underlying truth to all existence.

Other people approach Brahma by worshipping other Hindu gods in different ways demanded by that devotional form. Warriors have a warrior form.

Some of the more gruesome worshippers come from the goddess Kali, both the destroyer and the creator. Some people formed that strangled and cut people in the name of their religion, and were known as thuggees by the British. They are pretty much extinct, now.

Oddly enough, other worshippers emphasized the feminine/creator side of Kali, who was the wife of a great god, Rama, I believe.

There's a story that Rama asked Brahman to show his place in the creation, thinking he was important. Brahman responded by showint a flower, the bloomed a whole universe, out of which bloomed another universe, and so on.

"You are in but one of these"

He said.

So it was that even the greatest man-god paled in comparison to Brahman.

It's also said that Hinduism came about in layers. First came the devotional magical rituals, then the philosophers got involved, and so was born the esoteric branch, which is famous now. From this esoteric branch, it was understood that Brahman was the font of creation, and all worship found him in the end.

So its said that Hinduism is the god of one thousand gods, and only one.

I find it fascinating myself.

I hope this helps.

oh my god(s), thank you so much, sumg and tort...this is helpful. so, the idea of brahma is as you said is the "form of the underlying truth to all existence". so, then, the hare krishnas conceptualize that "form" in a way that is particular to their understanding of it?

another question:
there seem to be a large number of gurus out there. are these folks usually male? are they seen as prophets of some sort, or intrepreters of this "underlying truth to all existence"? or as something else entirely?

interestingly, one of the places i am going to be spending time is near kalighat, the main temple to the god(dess?) Kali, I think, in kolkata.

thanks for the tip on joseph campbell, i will see if the library has it.

tell me more!
zopa

Good thread.

Ah, the Krishnas..

It's a devotional form. I think we have to distinguish sharply between the devotional forms and the esoteric forms.

Devotional forms of Hinduism believe that it is impossible for most people to find the Brahman by stilling their mind and listening. So they empty their minds of all but Brahman by chanting in a group and breathing properly. Doing so empties the mind of empty thoughts, and brings to the meditating person some greater truths, if they are prepared.

This devotion is not just in the form of prayer. They must learn to love their object of devotion, which in this case is Krishna, a human type incarnation of Brahma sent to enlighten the mortals, and friend of the greatest human-type hero, ****. The story of that friendship and advice offered by Krishna to his warrior friend, on the eve of battle, is called the Bhavaghad Vita.

In this devotion, worshippers try to live in peace with all, themselves, and live a simply lifestyle. In devoting themselves lovingly to Krishna, offering their life to him in a sense, they let go of their self, and open themselves to the Brahman.

I find their way interesting, but I can't follow it.

Love of a wise Master is integral to growth in all forms of Hinduism. That wise master is called a Guru, and it is said that no one advances without help from a Guru that can open up the inner mind of the student. Even the greatest Hindu visionaries have Gurus they have learned from, in an endless chain.

There was a famous female Indian Guru called the Mother, but she's dead now, and I understand her ashram has fallen down to the 'dark side' of materialism and rigid theism after she died.

In the Esoteric school, one learns various means of meditation to lead one to the Brahman, and through emptying the mind of all finite concerns, one lets the Brahman flood the mind, and let the student taste of the Brahman. That doesn't mean that all students become gurus, only that they yearn for permanent contact with the Brahman.

The learning of various rituals, philosophies, and scriptures help the student learn the best ways to approach the Brahman, how to live to maximise the chances of encountering the Brahman, and how to recognise it when it is seen. Raw knowledge is nothing but raw knowledge, and needs to be made valuable by experience through meditation.

Because there is no devotional object besides Brahman, and knowledge is the guideway,combined with a Guru, its called an Esoteric path.

Everyone has a different mindset, and some are ready for the esoteric, others the devotional. Both lead to the same goal.

When you see people bringing candles or food to a shrine, its not just idolatry, usually. Its the practice of lay Devotional Hinduism, available to all, even the un-educated.

It may not be perfect, but it is all they have while they are unable to live 'perfect' lives like the Brahmins. Notice the similarity in name?

Now this is where it gets weird. The Brahmins are a Caste, and India has hundreds of them. Every person, in theory, has a caste, and THEIR way to heaven is to carry out the required duties of their Caste to perfection. The Brahmins are the priestly caste, though they've moved into business in latter times. Not every Brahmin can be a priest, but most Priests are Brahmins. It is how families make their living, as if it was reuired for every Christian Pastor to make other Christian pastors in their family.

Hinduism has absorbed the Caste system into its structure, and so, one has the sacred and the profane in the same structure, 'maintaining' social order.

As Westerners, we can enter straight into the religion without worry about Caste, though it might be hard to find a religious woman to marry, because technically they're required to marry within caste, of which you have none.

how did you get so fokin' smart about all of this?
thank YOU.
zopa

Zopa

Hinduism is also more of a way of life. Unlike other religions there are no 10 steps to become a hindu.In general I have been told that there are no ceremonies to become a hindu...no conversion ceremonies.

very rarely do we go to school to learn about our religion so you what you get from me is my own interpretation.

One of the greatest books is the Mahabharatha and then within that the Gita. I have read the Mahabharatha but not the Gita. The stories in that book convey many a doctrines of the relgion.

The culture and cultural celebrations will show you a part of the philosohies. From ceremonies of birth to death..Hindus practice their religion.

The other are right about the Caste system in Hinduism...very much prevelant in the villages and smaller towns. In cities too but to some less extent.

If you are interested in the philosophies of the religion you will be in calcutta and you can check out some the religious philiophers who came from that area...


From Wikipedia...
In the religious realm, Bengal gave birth to great Hindu sages and saints like Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (a 15th century major Vaishnava leader), Ramprasad Sen (a famous Kali Bhakta and poet) and Ramakrishna Paramhansa. Others include: Swami Vivekananda (the most renowned of Shri Ramakrishna's disciples), Śrī Aurobindo Ghosh, Shrii Shrii Anandamurti, founder of the socio-spiritual organisation Ananda Marga and A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, founder-acharya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness (ISKCON).


Hope this helps.

Also the Ghats (the shores of a river) are very important in Hinduism as our ashes are supposed to be immerserd in holy rivers..any flowing water body but holy rivers are prefered. That is why the Ghats of Varanasi are so crowded.
In general all rivers are considered holy...

If you see around you in general the religion considers birds animals and other elements of nature holy..water, fire and earth. Many of the animals are god's vehicles thus considered holy...the tiger, monkey, elephant, garuda, cow, snake..all have some connection to some god.

I learnt what I did from comic books..yes comic books called Amar Chitra Katha's. If you see them buy some of the comics as they give you a very simple view into the religion.Lot of mythology...Cambpell's book will tell you that in a interesting way.

Hey Zopa,
I'm not an authority on Hinduism but, amongst other things, I was once a scholar of religion and did a bit of reading. I recommend the following, as I find myself still hanging on to them years later...

The Religion of the Hindus - Kenneth Morgan
The Sword and the Flute: Kali and Krsna: Dark Visions of the Terrible and the Sublime in Hindu Mythology - David Kinsley
Hindu Goddesses: Visions of the Divine Feminine in the Hindu Religious Tradtion - David Kinsley

...and, of course, the sources others have mentioned.

If you go to Calcutta, you can find the Vivekenanda center. There, there is the picture story of the Ramayana epic poems, theme by theme. It really blew me away.

vive... center. sounds really cool. thanks everybody for your input. im gonna try to read at least one book before i go.
zopa

Check this site out...

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/1863/faq.html#What%20is%20Hinduism

http://www.punditravi.com/hindu_questions.htm#rebirth

you made me think Zopa on how much and how little I knew. Like any other relgious practice is complicated. Humm I think when i go back to school I have to check out some classes on this subject.

Good luck in your reading...

there is an interesting 'off-shoot' of hinduism, called advaita-vedanta. The Book of One by Dennis Waite changed my life. the first book i ever read that actually channeled truth, and wasnt truth simply by default. And i had read many before that...

to get started on the journey, some use others who are a bit further along. Some simply struggle to find truth on our own. But, at some point, we need to start looking at our own religious experience, i.e. our life, and garnish the precious knowledge only presented to our individual, unique experience. I encourage you, deeply, to find "god" in its totality and to only use religion as a stepping stone to understanding the greater mysteries that are presented to us. The greatest teacher we have available is ourselves, our own act of being.

out of curiosity, why the interest in hindu specifically? im guessing it has something to do with your upcoming trip, but, maybe not

I'm backtracking a bit but don't think anyone answered your GURU/MALE question... as a fellow female, I had the same assumption. I have since realised there are certainly female 'gurus' out there - and it was an immense and life-changing relief...

Kerala is a long way from Calcutta, but it is unlike any other part of the subcontinent I've been to in terms of laid-backness - like a small holiday from India. Check out:

www.amritapuri.org or www.amma.org

'Amma' (there are many Amma's, it just means mother) is Hindu by birth but her teachings essentially transcend all the rituals that some clever person above was describing as a kind of veil under which learns the truth which cannot be understood with the rational mind. (Although you will see plenty of rituals if you visit the ashram, I think mainly to appease and entertain the Indian devotees who are attached to and expect that. I suppose us Westerners like it too, colourful and noisy, innit?

You might have heard of her as 'the hugging saint'. She certainly looks cuddly (and is, of course) but as my friend put it last month, "Man that lady kicks ass"!

Interestingly, I have just returned from Kalighat which I first visited 12 years ago. I was moved to visit as I suddenly could see in retrospect that quite unconsciously some process kicked off in me on that first visit. It feels to me that the divine mother - in the form of the much-misunderstood-and-maligned Kali - has been looking out for me ever since. I have this sense she has been gently and persistently guiding me, picking me up when I've gone wrong, giving me a sharp prod when I've gone badly wrong...to the point where I am now able to consciously recognise that...

Of course there are many other female 'gurus' but for me the search stopped when I met Amma, so I can't comment any further.

quote:

Originally posted by sinahptik:
out of curiosity, why the interest in hindu specifically? im guessing it has something to do with your upcoming trip, but, maybe not

yes, it is because of my upcoming trip. interestingly, though, the area where i will be is mostly Muslim.