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I don't think tyler's view has to lack meaning; it's all in how you look at it and how you perceive the world and life. At least for me, I think it can in fact be very meaningful, the way Tylerdurden was describing. I embrace the entire living planet, and in many ways view non-human life on the same level, or sometimes a higher level, than human life. Or rather, I look at all living things as being connected, so to me personally, I think it would be cool (meaningful) for my death to allow future life -- even if it's 'just' a beautiful, gigantic oak tree. :-) Actually, a tree would be great. ;-) But on the other hand, on the non-physical plane, it's possible something extraordinary will happen - something we can't conceptualize. Just as tyler was sorta conceptualizing it, but in the end, it's impossible for any of us to really know, until it actually happens.

And I can *completely* understand why others may not find this meaningful in the slightest, and I'm not at all trying to negate other peoples' views; it's just that I felt the need to write that it is very possible, at least for me, to be agnostic, AND to find a LOT of meaning in my life, and life in general. I love being alive, and I value it.

And to Tyler - what you wrote makes perfect sense to me.

hmmmm...i used to have a 'religion,' but nowadays, i find myself becoming more open-minded as to what truth is. i think each person has their own truth based on their experiences and exposure (or lack of) to sprituality. i used to not believe in reincarnation, and still not sure if i do, but im learning about it. admittingly, i just dont know the answer, but im finding that not knowing is leading me on a path to learning more...and thats the best part!
so...to answer your question of whether we only live once or do we keep coming back, well...i hope its the latter!

happy travels!

I guess it is time that oldhippy answer this one as well. I like jen's post above that not knowing is what is fueling the fire!

I had a deep need to know. It was like a fire inside. It affected everything I did.

So one day...just like Buddha sitting under that Bodi tree...but I was just sitting on my folks fron porch steps...this revelation came to me.

What happends when an animal dies in nature?

have you ever seen those science film clips where they speed up the decompossition process, and show how even in death, this animal is now a host to tons of new life giving activity?

what that showed me was, that even in death...we are fuel for the life process!

we become the essence of what keeps "the cycle" going.

In nature's way...we complete the cycle.

So...then I started thinking about what other natural cycles there are in nature....and boingggggggggggggggg! I just got it!

Just like winter gives the impression that the cycle is dead...life springs yet again...eternal!

So I'd like to see you all, list all cycles that you are aware of in nature. Start your list herein this post. Add your clarity or comments on each one.

Why is studying/observing nature so important to knowing the truth?

Because all these "life giving clues" are here for a reason...and that reason is to find and know the truth!

Hi there, oldhippy. Do you remember when I told you that you seem to know what to say and at the right time? I was just thinking of natures' cycles this morning!

I think its important to observe the cycles of nature because nature consists of recurring patterns. As far as I know there is no organism that doesn't have the pattern of: birth, growing, dying, death. So it seems logical to extrapolate that further and further out. To the planets ecosystems. To the universe. So I guess one day the universe will die and be reborn.

On a side note, there is something else I would like to share. I have been reading a book called Conversations With God. From what I gather, we (as energy, souls, whatever) took on a biological form so that we could be the Absolute experiencing itself. I don't really know how to explain it properly, hopefully you might just "get it". I have been trying to look at things from that perspective to see if it holds truth. There are 3 books in the series and the 3rd (the one I'm on) discusses universal level truths.

That last paragraph came out for some reason, so I hope that helps.

life is like a nose:
0 is too few
2 is too many.

conversations with god is a good series.

old hippy, id like to expand a bit on the cycles and include waves in there. same thing, but conceptually a bit different. mathematically, a circle and a wave are the "same" thing, just represented a bit differently. and a wave that amplifies? turns into a spiral...

seashells
every cycle of life/death
rings on the inside of a tree
learning (amplified, ever notice in studying how an opinion seems to shift from one polar opposite to the next, but always with a bit more... perspective on the matter?)
sound frequencies
electrical frequencies
planetary orbits
roller coasters!
shape of celestial bodies (stars, planets)

quite a few out there...

on reincarnation, as was said, energy can not be destroyed. however, i do not believe what was created as a personality by the mind will continue on past this existence. "i" will only live once, but "I" will never die.

Death scares me a lot. I'd like to believe in reincarnation, but I don't know if it ever ends.

quote:

Originally posted by sinahptik:
conversations with god is a good series.

yes! this series shed light onto many questions! i read all three books!

I think existence is more dimensional than we typically think it. I think we are part of something larger that is not our physical body, something more than mind, and that something larger was here before we were born and will be here after we die.

I think reincarnation is a more accurate concept than thinking we have a single existence.

I think about this question a lot. Like someone else said we are at the core energy and the exact same energy as that of your pet cat or the tree in your back yard this is true because whether with evolution or creation we all came from one original source a big bang or god and therefore we and everything we see is made up of that original source. So yes we do not die energy cannot disappear but it must be distributed whether that be back into human form or as an animal or tree. We are but one not individual thats how I look at life at the mo anyhow until I come accross another theory which will distrupt my status quo. Ill go off track for a sec I thought about this theory and the aspect of power. Power which can been seen as a negitive want or desire but all energy requires power to exist. As humans we are trying to gain this power in all the wrong ways such as status or fame, money whereas the biggest power source is the collective and others such as the moon, earth etc that is why people honour the moon, sun etc they know it regenerates them and vice versa when we tend to the earth it florishes when we love another they beem. When we hurt others or the land part of it or them dies. I no I have gone on a whirlwind here just had to get some of this down on paper any replys go hard I hope some of it made sense.

"Your thoughts create your reality, what are you feeding, roots are hard to remove"

May I suggest an alternative possibility.....
What if we GET to return here or somewhere similar BECAUSE we are doing something right?

I don't think what I think is really all that interesting to anyone but myself... I happen to have very strong certainty and comfort about this particular topic. But what really matters is what each person thinks for himself/ herself.

However, I just want to contribute this quote that I bumped into while on another endeavor. I find it a poetic bit of reflection, relevant to the topic.

"It has taken me all the time I've had to become myself, yet now that I'm old, there are times when I feel I am barely here, no room for me at all. I remember that in the last months of my pregnancies the child seemed to claim almost all my body, my strength, my breath, and I held on wondering if my burden was my enemy, uncertain whether my own life was at all mine. Is life a pregnancy? That would make death a birth..." From The Measure of My Days by Florida Scott-Maxwell.

quote:

That would make death a birth

interestingly enough, that is precisely the case the "birth" of anything also requires a "death." and the "death" of anything leads to a "birth." applicable on quite a few levels! and it just cant be any other way here!

i would say they are one and the same, and that we experience many deaths and births in our singular lives here, though the ceasing of activity through this physical body does only happen once, in that context.

I couldn't agree with you more. I have no words for this constant dying/ rebirthing game to which I am completely commited.

Death... unto oneself, is how I say it.

I have toyed around with changing my last name to a non-English word with the meaning "Becoming"... so my name would be

"Ann-Marie Becoming"

but hopefully something that rolls off the tongue more gracefully than that...

that about sums it up for me!

Ann-Marie (whoever I may be at this precise moment... )

Good question and one that deserves to be thought about. I think this is the one and only life we have, that God created the earth and that the way to salvation is not good works, but acceptance of His son, Jesus Christ.

I know, I know, this will not be a popular viewpoint on a site such as this and will be met with comments like "you are so narow minded" and "what about the billion people in India" -- all I can say is I have traveled the world several times over and for everything I have learned about Buddhism, Hinduism and the many other -isms, they have only reinforced by belief in God.

AaA

Popular ain't the goal, however... I am still here!

Ann-Marie (back to learning TEFL...)

quote:

the way to salvation is not good works, but acceptance of His son, Jesus Christ.

one of my many "problems" with christianity.

whatever blows your hair back though!

It was posed as a discussion, so its good to have varied viewpoints on the topic. I agree with the "one and only life we have," but like i said, i think that whatever was created as a personality by the brain will not "live" on past death.

i pose a question though, if something reinforces your belief in "god," then in a way, could the other religions have played as much a part of your belief as christianity?

Not only do I think the other religions (or more specifically the followers of the other religions) strengthened my faith in God, but I also believe there is much good in almost every one of the other beliefs systems ...

If Christianity was not an option on the table, I would be a Buddhist so fast you would not be able to catch me before I got to the 'padme' in 'om mani padme hum'

AaA

A friend in my protestant Christian church had a near death experience years ago and is now a firm believer in reincarnation. I have always believed in it--since I was a child. I don't talk about it at church though.

I read "Conversations with God" too. The main idea I came away with out of it was this--"What really is suicide?" You can kill yourself fast or slow, but you are all killing yourselves, so why point the finger at someone who chose the quick way? I have a friend who thinks suicide is the ultimate sin, but eats sugary sweets all day long in spite of his diabetes. Is he superior? Don't anyone take this as justification to off yourself though--there's a reason you're here, and if you don't live out your mission this time around, you'll probably have to face the whole set of problems another time. Nope, I want to come back with a whole NEW set of challenges.

And I'm pretty open to others' beliefs too. The truth is the truth--no matter what we may think about it.

Have you ever woke up from a dream...and looked at the clock???

You see, 7:33 on the clock...but immediately you slumber off again, and have what feels like a long, luscious and vivid dream...only to wake up again and see that its 7:41...???

So like...8 minutes of dream time, feels like hours and hours if not days....

Apparently its been scientifically proven that when somebody dies...there is 8-12 minutes of brain activity that still goes on...!?

I don't know about the details, nor do I try to know...but I feel that I'm a part of something greater...the community of life...and its definately a cycle!

Did you know that salmon protein can be found in the tips of trees neighbooring rivers?? Its all connected...when you something dies...something lives...

Anyone seen the movie Waking Life??? If you participating in this thread...you should!