BootsnAll Travel Community

I've had this discussion on and off with a friend, and lately I've begun to wonder more and more about it. I used to just laugh off his counsel as his typical anti-american spiel, and didn't take what he said too, too seriously.

Basically, we both lead pretty okay lives. There are people in the world who dream to live the kind of lives we do. I go to a good university, I get good grades, my parents pay my way through school, I travel, I'm in good health. As for my friend, he's incredibly free spirited and intelligent with a gift for getting along with people and has a well paying job, despite having only one year of college education.

And yet, he's disatisfied with where he is and the way he is there, and I'm unhappy here and the way I am. He lives in Israel and dislikes the way people act.. It's really quite understandable in his case, but I can't imagine what my problem is.

I have everything in the world to be grateful for, to be satisfied and confident about, and instead everything simultaneously bores, confuses, and irritates me. He says the problem is Americans, and I just need to get out of the country for a really, really long time, and I'll begin to understand. According to him, I'm living in the Truman Show and I can't see what's wrong infront of me. Still, the truth is more that my problem is me.

I guess, basically.. I'm going to be spending the next school year in France, and suddenly I have this weird feeling that I'm going to be equally discontent there, that I'm going to feel just as maladroit and out of it. It isn't that I'm shy, but that I never know what to say to people, I just don't understand the way people work. What if I realize that it doesn't matter where you are, you don't really, I mean really really, change?

Very moving and honest post, Sonya. I would like to suggest two things: First, the longing, the dissatisfaction, the hunger for more--are gifts, goads, impetus for wandering and for pilgrimage. Love them and respect them and follow your wanderlust. If you have those feelings, then you need to leave home, leave the mundane affairs of your (comfortable) life, go out and see more of the world, learn what there is for you to learn beyond school and the material world. It is good to change the air, to shake ourselves up, to see what we have never seen, to get in touch with history and with the working people of the world, with children, and with bridges people have walked across for a thousand or more years. Second, there is no "geographical cure" for the great malaise. If you can't find anything to love in the people around you now, you may not find anything to love in the people of France, or Mali, or Bolivia. The trick is to open your heart. Sometimes travel--the uncertainty of it, the jarring of expectation, the discovery of completely different ways of life, the perception of people who have daily joys we have never known, the vulnerability of not being able to communicate clearly or buy our way out of a difficulty, can crack the heart open. That's what we want. We want the heart to open, corny as that sounds. We want to feel more, to be surprised, to be knocked to our knees in awe and wonder, and ultimately, to fall in love with our lives. To answer your question, yes, for me it is a question of where I am--where I am inside, and where I am outside. Once I crack that malaise and separate from my ease, once I allow travel to wake me up to the dazzlement of this moment in this place, I change where I am inside. There is, however, no guarantee. Some people travel the world and manage never to change where they are inside. It depends on the individual's willingness to see, willingness to wake up. Meditation helps me. I'm reading a book right now that might be useful to you: THE ART OF PILGRIMAGE, by Phil Cousineau. He offers skills for opening the heart while traveling. For him, "pilgrimage" need not be religious. It is the quest for life itself. May your plans go wrong; may you be surprised; may you live in interesting times.

quote:

Originally posted by Grannygold:
May your plans go wrong; may you be surprised; may you live in interesting times.

i like that!

people constantly elude my understanding, but thats ok, because it honestly works the other way too.

"where you are" could be taken to mean many, many things. location is... quite relative. external peace will only be followed by internal peace, since perspective/personality/ego will see it inevitably through its own (our own) filter.

If you feel dissatisfaction, what would satisfy you? what do you want that you currently dont have? i wouldnt judge by what others have/have not in relation to you, but i believe its important to always be eternally grateful for what one has..

when i look back on things, it is the same rushing silence that experienced it all. nothing has changed in some respects on many levels(the "external" world), and much has changed on some levels (how i look at things, my perspective). nothing "out there" filled that void, until i realized it was only my perspective that it was empty. they say "form is emptiness, emptiness is form."

I found that in trying to solve these problems, i would perpetuate them. i needed to first accept what was, and then i could change what will be. through that acceptance, it became clear exactly what problems i truly was encountering (frequently VASTLY different from what i thought) and then honestly taking choices that would lead to the end that i desired.

Sinahptic! So glad you chimed in on this. I enjoy your posts. I usually feel I do understand what you're saying, though that could be an illusion. A couple of teachings came to me as I read yours: "Living in gratitude is living in grace," and "In this moment, what is missing?" Neither of those gems diminishes my excitement when the possibility for adventure arises. But the possibility for adventure arises more than most of us (including me) credit. External movement is only one of the ways adventure presents itself, but it is certainly one of my great pleasures. Sonya, have we scared you off with our lengthy replies? Forgive me if I seemed sententious. All I really meant to say is that if adventure beckons, follow! Then it's up to you to see if there is anything "different."

Wow...great posts. Need to read and re-read.

quote:

Originally posted by Grannygold:
Sinahptic! So glad you chimed in on this. I enjoy your posts. I usually feel I do understand what you're saying, though that could be an illusion. A couple of teachings came to me as I read yours: "Living in gratitude is living in grace," and "In this moment, what is missing?" Neither of those gems diminishes my excitement when the possibility for adventure arises. But the possibility for adventure arises more than most of us (including me) credit.

i would say "adventure" and "miracles" are present in every moment. every continual moment we have to experience this lifetime is an adventure and has limitless possibilities. the fact any of us are here at all is a result of many chance happenings through out history, a real miracle we are where we are!

through your perspective, you understand fully what i am saying. however, since it is coming from my perspective, there will be inconsistencies. does it matter? no, not really, but i think its important to keep in mind when participating in communication, especially with words. but, when i say "chair" you probably think of a different design than i do, and so on. i think its akin to sign posts, they tell us where to go, but we have to travel there ourselves. words tell us where the other person is going, but we have to bring ourselves into the equation, and realize that we have likely experienced different things than the other person. and when using words that automatically limit what is being communicated, we have to use our perspective to put those limits on there, or the words would have no meaning or definition to us.

i enjoy your posts too, a great addition to the board i look forward to future conversations. i also cant agree more that it isnt just in america, its everywhere! its so easy to think the grass is greener on the other side... humanity is on the brink of either destroying itself, or saving itself. i dont see the latter all too clearly, but thats ok, its just my perspective, and ive certainly been wrong before! haha

and verbosity is generosity hahaha

Yes to all you said. "Verbosity is generosity." Tell that to my students. I also try to bear in mind Pascal's apology: "Forgive my length. I had not the time to be brief." Did we lose Sonya?

quote:

Originally posted by Grannygold:
Yes to all you said. "Verbosity is generosity." Tell that to my students. I also try to bear in mind Pascal's apology: "Forgive my length. I had not the time to be brief." Did we lose Sonya?

bah, they just dont know what they are getting! OT, but what do you teach?

and im sure shell check on it.. i know ill go for quite some lengths of time without getting online! since many people on this site travel, it just seems to be a personality quirk of the board.

This is getting off Sonya's topic, though I suppose it has something to do with where we are. Right now I teach drama, literature, and humanities in a community college. Formerly I taught drama, queer studies, and African studies in universities. I also teach meditation and creative writing in prisons as a volunteer, have been doing that since 1972. I teach what I need most to learn, and to the extent I have a choice, I teach those from whom I can learn the most. And you?

i teach backpacking?

i guess i teach through knowing my perspective to a degree, and giving it to others who may apply it to their own, in their own way. i dont know why yet, but that question actually left me dumbfounded!

i like this:

quote:

I teach what I need most to learn, and to the extent I have a choice, I teach those from whom I can learn the most

boy it can be difficult though, can it not?

my occupation is a backcountry wilderness ranger.

Backcountry wilderness ranger! That takes my breath away. That was my career objective when I finished high school, but at that time (1963) women could not even apply. It was a requirement that applicants take college courses in Forest Management, and women could not apply for those courses either. That happened so long ago, I had forgotten about it till you said the magic words. Now that kind of gender discrimination is nearly unthinkable, isn't it? What an ideal job for a solitudinous, reflective being who loves the earth. Hooray for you! And yet, and yet. . . solitude is also an inside job (inside ourselves), right? It IS a question of where you are: inside and outside. We have a theme going. Someone on here has a signature that says something about solitude being a matter of perception. Yes. Yes.

how interesting is that?!

times most certainly have changed... and in so many ways!

solitude, is an interesting topic i think, and i agree its perception based, but what isnt, haha. some feel entirely alone while someone sleeps less than 20 feet away, and some feel crowded when in a room with just one other person.

"where" "you" "are" "internally" will manifest through external experience (a result of perception). where you are internally is the same as where you are externally, but oh the funny borders we prescribe importance to!

quote:

Originally posted by sonichka:
I've had this discussion on and off with a friend, and lately I've begun to wonder more and more about it. I used to just laugh off his counsel as his typical anti-american spiel, and didn't take what he said too, too seriously.

Basically, we both lead pretty okay lives. There are people in the world who dream to live the kind of lives we do. I go to a good university, I get good grades, my parents pay my way through school, I travel, I'm in good health. As for my friend, he's incredibly free spirited and intelligent with a gift for getting along with people and has a well paying job, despite having only one year of college education.

And yet, he's disatisfied with where he is and the way he is there, and I'm unhappy here and the way I am. He lives in Israel and dislikes the way people act.. It's really quite understandable in his case, but I can't imagine what my problem is.

I have everything in the world to be grateful for, to be satisfied and confident about, and instead everything simultaneously bores, confuses, and irritates me. He says the problem is Americans, and I just need to get out of the country for a really, really long time, and I'll begin to understand. According to him, I'm living in the Truman Show and I can't see what's wrong infront of me. Still, the truth is more that my problem is me.

I guess, basically.. I'm going to be spending the next school year in France, and suddenly I have this weird feeling that I'm going to be equally discontent there, that I'm going to feel just as maladroit and out of it. It isn't that I'm shy, but that I never know what to say to people, I just don't understand the way people work. What if I realize that it doesn't matter where you are, you don't really, I mean really really, change?

hmmm....i like how you relate your perspective as the "truman shows". Funny indeed, but a sad reality.
Your desires to be satisfied surpasses what the world can give.... and in this short life, you will battle for your desire for contentment...and then the inevitable death comes...what a life?

Seek and find True LOVE, and all your questions will fall into its own place.

There's a saying that encapsulates what you say almost perfectly:

"whereever you go, there YOU are"

Since it is the "I" that makes the feelings, if you feel discontented or incomplete in one place, unless you find the person or thing that makes you feel complete, you will, ipso facto, be discontent. I think it is a human condition.

If you find the person that makes you feel complete, you may feel trapped being with that person, but better than not having them!!!

The less complete you are, the more difficult it is to find a partner that satisfies you.

These are truths I have learned the hard way. Grow within yourself, and the world will grow with you.

Easy words, hard to accomplish, I know.

sorry for disappearing. I got caught up in finals and moving back home and stopped reading bootsnall for a while. That was beautiful, grannygold, thank you.

someone said to me recently that it seemed to her that people who travel just for the sake of traveling, travel to the unknown (relative to the traveler) in order to become unknown. But you can't have love without familiarity..

really, my heart is open, but I have a feeling I just don't know how to deal with people and it's not a question of culture/place anymore. the business about smile at the world and the world smiles back at you only works if you don't have an ugly smile.. man this sounds like teen angst

I have a massive headache, sorry.. I just wanted to say something to show I'm alive, I appreciate the shared insights

Yes, sonichka, it is a question of where YOU are. When you know WHERE YOU ARE, all the rest will fall into place.

quote:

someone said to me recently that it seemed to her that people who travel just for the sake of traveling, travel to the unknown (relative to the traveler) in order to become unknown. But you can't have love without familiarity..

To me, the relation between space and mind are as such as space is what puts expectation on the mind. If you get familiar to a place, it (obviously with all that comes with that particular space, i.e. people) will have expectations towards you and you will have expectations towards yourself in relation to that space. So "travel to the unknown (relative to the traveler) in order to become unknown" might not be that far off the target. I know that it is something that I actually to enjoy about the unknown space. Expectations disapear and are often only present in regard to the palce to left behind. That's why I'm somebody who promotes the 'buring of the bridges'. If you want to be free of expectations and travel for that reason, then why carry the burden of 'old' expectations with you. The new space doesn't expect anything of you. And you don't have expectations towards yourself in regard to the new space. It's liberating. IMO.

I believe, that if you completely free yourself of what you expect from yourself in regard of how you deal with people, you might find that you actually do have things to say to people. Maybe just different stuff than you expected yourself to say before.
I've been in a similar position as you are, when it comes to people. Probably for differing reasons, but the symptoms were similiar. I thought it would then always be that way. But on my last trip I realised, that I've chaged in that regard. I'm actually quite good with people now. I never thought I could be. It's difficult to say excactely why this happend. Maybe I was just getting older, more experienced, etc. But I attribute at least part of it to the fact, that I was able to free myself first of the expectations people had towards me - and eventually the ones I had towards myself. And the easy way (as opposed to, you know, meditation, psycho analysis, etc.) is travelling.

So, don't dispair...you never know what's around next corner. And things might be different after France!

a.

quote:

whereever you go, there YOU are

I've never quite liked this saying, although I can't quite put my finger on why. I grew up in a small, rigid, conservative town ... and I really felt like I blossomed into someone new and more exciting the day I left. I'm the same me as I was then, and yet I'm so much happier then I would ever have been if I stayed put.

Sometimes it's good to shake things up. We are responsive to our environments, and I fully believe that different environments bring up different facets of our personalities. I would still be 'me' whether I lived in Manhattan or Medellin, but I am sure that I would flourish more in one than the other.

Personally, I need that shock of the unknown & all the challenges and excitements it brings to feel alive - and a great travel adventure will keep me high for months back home. And yet that day will always come when I'm bored and restless and wishing there was more to life, no matter how much I love those around me. And I'll hit the road once again, and feel so refreshed after.

Enjoy France! And enjoy whoever you become there! It's all a journey, and we never know what comes next.

hey

it's kinda cool that to see that there were more replies here which I had missed. Thanks for the ongoing posts. Michael, I feel that way right now - I hadn't quite known how to put into words.. thanks

Well, I had an amazing time. Doesn't everyone always have an amazing time their erasmus year? I had thought I wouldn't, but, I'm not an exception to the rule. My closest friends there were actually other Californians - proof that it wasn't a sort of America angst? Interestingly enough, most of my friends were international students, and I come out of this year speaking some Spanish as well. (We were near the Spanish border). So I guess my experience could've happened elsewhere, besides France..

I really don't know how to sum up what this past year was. While it was happening it felt like nothing; but, now that I'm in Finland for a week (I lived here on a scholarship three summers ago; it was the first time I was ever in Europe) chilling in the typically Finnish weather with little to do but drink and reflect upon things, I feel like.. I feel like I matured a lot since the last time I was here. France really pushed my buttons in a lot of ways, to the point where I ceased to care about most things that don't warrant worrying about. I've always been told that happiness is a choice.. I've learned, selfishly perhaps, but is that really a bad thing, how to choose. It takes a leap of faith, but after this year I feel like I can be okay anywhere, after anything. Well. I still have a lot of things to work on, but, it's ok now

Welcome back! Thanks for providing the opening that led to some terrific posts. We all have a lot of things to work on. If we didn't, we'd either be dead or in Nirvana, and I'm not certain I believe in Nirvana.