BootsnAll Travel Community

Hello gang. I am planning a trip for next year to London, Belgium, France and the Netherlands.

My husband will be coming with me this time and has a spinal cord injury from many moons ago that has effected his legs. It's hard to explain, but 8 hours in a economy or business class seat is not possible, so we'll need to go First Class for the trip to London (or wherever) and then we can do the cheap seats for the shorter flights.

Does anyone know the typical cost for a First Class ticket, what seasons are cheapest for First Class seats, and if there is a certain day of the week/period of the month that is cheaper than another?

We will be flying out of Chicago, so if you know of a different city I should chose to fly into for a significant costs savings, please let me know and I can address a different board.

Thanks for your help. It's appreciated IMMENSELY!


Tasha

First, don't get too hung up about first class vs business class. Research the seats for an individual airline before you book, because most offer as good or almost as good seats to business fliers on long haul flights. Indeed, many airlines don't offer anything marketed as first class, but still have the best seats available in their business class. The airlines that market a first class (I see three - UA, AA and BA) seem to charge ridiculous amounts for it, too.

I did a search for a few random dates spaced throughout the year, and it looked like if you're booking well in advance there's not much difference in the cost of premium seats to London, at least as a percentage of the total price. Of course, as with economy tickets, prices are going to go up in summer (May-September) and Christmas, just not that much, proportionally.

The cheapest of the strictly speaking "first" class tickets I found were consistently coming in at around $12000 pp. On the other hand, you could fly with Virgin Atlantic in "business" class for about a third of that, about $4000pp plus or minus $300 depending on season. I've never flown them, nor would I be able to afford the bus. class ticket, but Virgin is well known for their comfort - I was able to confirm they offer fully flat seats (generally considered the best of the best) in business class - and I've read that on some flights they offer massages to business fliers.

Best of luck finding something that works for you. Shop around, and you might get lucky.

Tasha-

You'll have a decent amount of choices for airlines if you go ORD-LHR

If you fly on a European airline, Neil is probably 100% correct, biz class will be just fine, and a lot less expensive than F.


To see what airlines products are offered, go to
http://www.seatguru.com/

When you are looking at tickets, it will tell you what aircraft (sometimes listed as 'equipment') it will be on.

match that up on seat guru for each airline, and you'll get a pretty good idea what the seats/area will be like, and what will most fit your needs.

Thank you both for your suggestions. I saw something about seatguru.com in Budget Travel a few months ago, but didn't consider the Business class option because on a US flight, there isn't a huge difference between it and Economy. I'll check out Virgin, etc and see what I might be looking at.

There is a HUGE amount of difference between coach and business class on Delta if you're heading towards Europe. My brother is a pilot for Delta and when I fly using his buddy passes, I'm usually seated in business class. The seats are pretty much the same as first class - deep and comfortable and wide. Some will stretch out full length so you can sleep flat.

Worlds of difference between Domestic business and international business. Int'l business is nicer than a lot of domestic F. Most international business are fully flat or almost fully flat recline. I'm not one to plug other websites, but www.flyertalk.com forums are great for learning about the different airline products.

Also note, 3 airlines have lie flat(at 180 degrees) seats, British Airways, South African Air, and Virgin (Virgin only has 2 classes of service, so their first/business is the same).

I second what others say about international biz class. It is dramatically better than economy and frequently only marginally inferior to first...if there is a first class at all. And again, many airlines don't bother with a first class to/from 'short' (<=9 hrs) international flights...like between North America and Europe.

Swiss has a economy/biz class daily flights between Chicago and Zurich starting at USD2500 and easily climbing to USD4000 depending on how far out you book and why you fly. I suspect that if you book well early (6 months?) on a competitive route into a major hub (Chicago to London/Amsterdam/Frankfurt/Paris) not during peak seasons (summer, xmas) then you could fly for USD2000 each return.

I also agree with checking out the biz class seat information for each airline as they can vary dramatically in this highly competitive race for biz class passengers.

@nebratu: Virgin does have three classes of travel: Upper, Premium Economy and Economy. Upper is equivalent to first, and Premium Economy is equivalent to Biz. I have flow Virgin's Premium Economy and while it is a nice improvement over economy it is no Biz class. Bigger seats, better service but seats are still sorta cheap and they don't recline as much as other carriers. Virgin's website has more.

Again, you guys have been great. I checked on flights to Switzerland and saw much better rates than to London flying business class. I read somewhere that flights between the US and London were typically less expensive year-round, so I went with London as a good hub location for connecting flights. Ideally, I have no issue flying into a different city, I was just unaware it would be so much more economical. Thank you all again for all of your suggestions.

For future reference...I read about a few low-cost, no-economy class airlines that service long haul routes in last week's Economist magazine:

Silverjet: London-NYC
MAXjet: London, NYC, DC, Vegas
Eos Airlines: London-NYC
L'Avion: Paris-NYC

Some return tickets are as low as $1k!

Thanks for the links Stoo. I was checking out MaxJet and asked on another board if anyone had flown with them before and what they thought. They have some good deals, but I'm from that school of thought that a lot of things are too good to be true. However, travel deals tend to prove me wrong.

Your posts makes it sound like these airlines are scams, which I think is unfair. If you've got some specific criticisms of those airlines then please share them!

Did you check out the other airlines, besides MAXjet?

While I quoted as low as 1k (NY-Paris), it seems like 2k is more average. Nothing 'too good to be true' about that, but definitely better than the norm on traditional airlines. Also note that: they fly into 2nd-tier airports (like London Luton or Stanstead) which are a bit harder to work with, they have no networks or alliances, and such. From your post, that did not seem to matter.

End of the day, I fly Swiss: I've got swag with them, Swiss is unusually cheap these days, and I like to fly out of Zürich (duh). But if I were in London, I'd sure be checking out these airlines. I guess since you are flying out of Chicago that doesn't work so well.

I think you misunderstood me.

I didn't mean that the airlines mentioned are scammers. I was making a general observation about a lot of things being too good to be true when someone wants to seriously discount something for you. Like you go to Vegas or the Bahamas and there are people offering you free stays at a hotel if you come listen to a seminar or something. There is always some sort of catch. Or the strange mailers you get about free cruises.

However, most travel deals tend to prove me wrong. I was blown away by what EOS offers. Definitely out of my price range unless they run a special similar to the current one (B1G1 free) next year when I'm looking to head over.

Outside of that, Swiss and Max Jet are looking like their prices are something I can swing. You all have been a saving grace here. I check out Y! Answers sometimes, but unfortunately, you get a lot of yahoo's with no info. This site is like the bible of travel info.

quote:

Originally posted by Stoo:
@nebratu: Virgin does have three classes of travel: Upper, Premium Economy and Economy. Upper is equivalent to first, and Premium Economy is equivalent to Biz. I have flow Virgin's Premium Economy and while it is a nice improvement over economy it is no Biz class. Bigger seats, better service but seats are still sorta cheap and they don't recline as much as other carriers. Virgin's website has more.

Not to nitpick ... but Virgin is very clear that their Premium economy is not Biz class and that their Upper Class is Biz class. Premium economy is usually less than half the price of Biz class flights. Their Upper Class is generally on par pricewise with Biz class and is fantastic. The seats actually flip over into beds (as opposed to seats that lie fully flat). I don't know about the flights on their UK - US routes, but the plane I flew on (Syd - Hkg) had an onboard beauty technician and an actual bar that seats 5!

Just an observation about business class tickets:
My wife and I frequently fly from Europe to the west coast in business class and I have noticed that the price never varies more than 5%, no matter the time of year. They consistently cost about $4400 Warsaw to Reno, Nevada. Flying to San Fran only knocks about $100 off the trip BTW.

Anyways, my point is that it seems to me that the airlines don't seem to frequently discount BC tickets or have fare sales. I suppose this has to do with the fact that business travelers must travel, whether there is a fare sale or not.

I suspect the prices you see today will not change must during the seasons or next year.

quote:

Not to nitpick ... but Virgin is very clear that their Premium economy is not Biz class and that their Upper Class is Biz class.

Jenifer, darling bootette, I never said the did. Read my post again.

quote:

My wife and I frequently fly from Europe to the west coast in business class and I have noticed that the price never varies more than 5%, no matter the time of year

Maybe Warsaw(?)-SFO, but I have problems believing that. But come on! 5%??? Please qualify that claim somehow, someway! Your statement is too general.

I also take exception to the "to me that the airlines don't seem to frequently discount BC tickets or have fare sales" quote. Swiss has various special deals, although not as much as economy, on a regular basis for those who pay attention. (Like me.) There just must be other airlines

Stoo,

OK to be more specific, I have purchased 6 tickets in the last year on this route, spring, summer, Christmas, and straight-up winter. The prices varied from $4100 to $4430, so that is 7.4%. Sorry about that.

In regard to the discounts, I said that they don't seem to frequently discount these tickets. I did not state it as fact, only my impression. You seem to agree that these BC discounts and fare sales are not as frequent as well, so....???

Anyways, I said in the beginning of my post it was just what I observed in practice, it certainly may not be true, you and others may choose to believe it or not. I have seen little variability on my particular route 6 different times, maybe it is a pattern, maybe I just have bad luck. Take it for what it is worth.

As far as paying attention to these fare sales we have an in-house travel agent that constantly deals with the needs of 30+ expats traveling from Warsaw to the west coast 4 or more times each year each. She is pretty schooled up on looking for the good deals and really watches these routes closely (this is her full-time job). She generally always gets a better deal than most of the major search engines so it seems my price is good.

I tried finding the particular websites, but i thought i read that there are sites similar to hotwire and bookingbuddy that have discounted first class and business class tickets...sometimes the ads on boots have links to those types of sites...i would search around for those...

Bummer for you I see Zurich-US Biz fares vary much more dramatically. Like by 50% on some/many routes.

Can I ask more? How far out do you purchase? How many airlines service Warsaw-SF/Reno?

As for sales/special offers, your post implies "rare" and I disagree with that. With my much watched Swiss one can see two biz fares on sale for every three econ. Less, yes. Rare, no.

It is not much of a bummer for me, maybe for the shareholders of the company I work for....

My purchases usually take place 1-2 months before travel, almost never less than two weeks (even when it has the price was the same) As far as airlines go it is mostly a Lot Polish/United itin or Lufthansa and some other US carrier, can't remember who though. The choices are limited on the route.

You got me thinking though, one thing I did not consider is that our tickets are always unrestricted and fully refundable, these types of fares may be less affected by fare sales and promotions.

Maybe that explains the steady pricing?