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Holds PhD in Packing
Picture of snarkyinla
Posted
Just sharing...

For those of you who may have heard, about a month ago Congo rebels execution-style killed a female gorilla and left her infant behind.

There's a great blog that follows the work of the Congo wildelife authority for what's going on there. Thought I'd share

http://www.wildlifedirect.org/blogAdmin/gorilla

This is just one of the blogs they have, but I like it the best.


--------------
Snarky's African Blog
 
Posts: 243 | Location: Los Angeles | Registered: 20 September 2006Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Travel Deity
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I love these blogs. You can also donate directly to the rangers via the ngo - hence the "direct" part of the name.

I heard about them via a yahoo news story about school kids who ran some sort of donation drive called Pickles for Primates. Very cool work to publicize people who work in isolation - these rangers (most worked without pay for a long time) - and very interesting and readable blogs.
And some blogs are written by the local rangers themselves.

So much to say. I love these blogs!


Make cay, not war - Kesmen
 
Posts: 1941 | Location: Washington, DC | Registered: 03 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Tinker, Bounder, Scoundrel, Cad.
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The Mai Mai rebels have always behaved like a group of lower-order primates themselves. One of those horrible exceptions that proves the rule when it comes to human evolution.

On a a positive note, you have to appreciate the dangerous work these rangers do every day. Good on them.



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Please note: the above member, who is the very model of a modern major-general, with information vegetable, animal, and mineral, has retired from BnA and won't be able to answer any follow-up questions. If you really need to speak with him, use the PM function. Please direct all Schengen visa questions here. Likewise, expat questions go here. Remember to vote tiger penis. Oh, and if possible, be kind to Jester and Stoo.
 
Posts: 1999 | Location: Retired. | Registered: 30 June 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Travel Deity
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There is news about four more gorillas killed: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=12301477&ft=1&f=1004

The organization helping with the blogs and doing fundraising is trying to raise awareness about it and funds to help buy rations and supplies for the rangers who work to protect the park.

This is the blog about gorilla protection again: http://www.wildlifedirect.org/blogAdmin/gorilla

It's sad not only for the loss of the gorillas but because - as I understand from the blogs - the wildlife in the national parks can play a huge role in tourism in the future and can have important economic results for local people.


Make cay, not war - Kesmen
 
Posts: 1941 | Location: Washington, DC | Registered: 03 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Tinker, Bounder, Scoundrel, Cad.
Picture of Continental Op
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quote:
Originally posted by KateL57:
It's sad not only for the loss of the gorillas but because - as I understand from the blogs - the wildlife in the national parks can play a huge role in tourism in the future and can have important economic results for local people.


The whole bloody affair is sad for a lot of reasons. With any luck the African Union/UN force currently stationed nearby will finally get everyone to the table. Relieving some of the underlying pressures surrounding the parks would certainly make the rangers' jobs a lot easier.



______________________________________________________________________________

Please note: the above member, who is the very model of a modern major-general, with information vegetable, animal, and mineral, has retired from BnA and won't be able to answer any follow-up questions. If you really need to speak with him, use the PM function. Please direct all Schengen visa questions here. Likewise, expat questions go here. Remember to vote tiger penis. Oh, and if possible, be kind to Jester and Stoo.
 
Posts: 1999 | Location: Retired. | Registered: 30 June 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Tinker, Bounder, Scoundrel, Cad.
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Update: Remains of missing female gorilla found... Censored



______________________________________________________________________________

Please note: the above member, who is the very model of a modern major-general, with information vegetable, animal, and mineral, has retired from BnA and won't be able to answer any follow-up questions. If you really need to speak with him, use the PM function. Please direct all Schengen visa questions here. Likewise, expat questions go here. Remember to vote tiger penis. Oh, and if possible, be kind to Jester and Stoo.
 
Posts: 1999 | Location: Retired. | Registered: 30 June 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Travel Deity
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Yikes.

I know little about the situation in Congo, but it seems like there is one side killing animals (and people) indiscriminately and another side doing its best to get on with life and do their job. I think it's unfortunate that a group inciting the problems might put on equal footing with decent people working hard in the name of reaching some form of negotiation.

I guess it is not clear who is killing the gorillas, but a few months ago, when a group of rebels attacked one of the bases of the rangers, one was killed, four were injured, and one pregnant woman died after witnessing the whole thing. This I know only from reading the Wildlife Direct blogs - it would be interesting to see if the danger and damage to humans is presented elsewhere.

It would be really sad if these people who are trying to help their country and the park are pushed into a conflict without being properly equipped.


Make cay, not war - Kesmen
 
Posts: 1941 | Location: Washington, DC | Registered: 03 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Tinker, Bounder, Scoundrel, Cad.
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quote:
Originally posted by KateL57:
I guess it is not clear who is killing the gorillas


Mai Mai rebels. Which is a broad term for a few different groups, some of whom are composed of ex-Rwandan "military", of which none have any real ideology or set goals beyond the acquisition of cheap Chinese-made goods (knock-off Rolexs, Nikes, etc) and generally satisfying any sexual or homicidal urge that passes through the mind of the local warlord. They aren't trying to liberate some tract of land, free some compatriots, establish some ideology, or make a better life for their children. They kill for killing's sake. Because it provides a cheap thrill and a false sense of power. No different then any other group of sociopaths.



______________________________________________________________________________

Please note: the above member, who is the very model of a modern major-general, with information vegetable, animal, and mineral, has retired from BnA and won't be able to answer any follow-up questions. If you really need to speak with him, use the PM function. Please direct all Schengen visa questions here. Likewise, expat questions go here. Remember to vote tiger penis. Oh, and if possible, be kind to Jester and Stoo.
 
Posts: 1999 | Location: Retired. | Registered: 30 June 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Travel Deity
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It seems that way but I don't think it has been reported officially that way (?)

Clearly they are bad guys and I don't mean to imply otherwise. From reading the wildlife direct blogs, it seems like they want to maintain the power they have by intimidation and manipulate local people into helping them and so on.

I don't know - are they getting exactly the reaction they want? Does looking at it mainly as senseless killing help them by taking away attention from the fact that it is part of a strategy (albeit an obviously evil one)?


Make cay, not war - Kesmen
 
Posts: 1941 | Location: Washington, DC | Registered: 03 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Tinker, Bounder, Scoundrel, Cad.
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No worries. It didn't sound like you were impying they were anything but bad guys. Smile

Fortunately or unfortunately, I don't think they have any strategy (hidden or otherwise) beyond prolonging their current set of circumstances and expanding their "power base" through intimidation and manipulation.

I imagine the reaction they want is that currently given to them by the African Union and the DRC government: treating them like they are, in fact, a rational body that deserves a seat at the table. They should be treated like criminals rather than rebels, as they aren't rebelling against much of anything beyond the well-being of others. What's to negotiate? They don't want anything besides "more."

The sad fact? This is a problem that could be solved with 100 men and 2 "Little Birds." It isn't complicated. The rebels aren't very good at playing the part of guerrillas. Unfortunately, western societies, as a whole, could care less about Africans killing one another. It's a shame that a small, dedicated group of men like the rangers are forced to tow the line without any support, unable to engage but only react to these clowns.



______________________________________________________________________________

Please note: the above member, who is the very model of a modern major-general, with information vegetable, animal, and mineral, has retired from BnA and won't be able to answer any follow-up questions. If you really need to speak with him, use the PM function. Please direct all Schengen visa questions here. Likewise, expat questions go here. Remember to vote tiger penis. Oh, and if possible, be kind to Jester and Stoo.
 
Posts: 1999 | Location: Retired. | Registered: 30 June 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Travel Deity
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via the wildlife direct blogs - National Geographic article Congo Gorilla Killings Fueled by Illegal Charcoal Trade:

quote:
Conservationists believe last month's execution of four mountain gorillas inside the park was carried out by people associated with the charcoal trade who want the park unprotected.

"The gorillas have become a hindrance for the charcoal trade," said Emmanuel de Merode, director of WildlifeDirect...

The soldiers [govt soldiers, not the rangers, though they also haven't been paid] have reportedly not received paychecks in years, and rangers say some may turn to the charcoal trade and other illegal activities to support themselves and their families.

"The military is put in the park because of the armed bandits that operate there, but they're not paid, so they start making charcoal instead," said Virunga ranger Paulin Ngobobo, in his office in Goma...

"We'll get a report from a military commander saying we cannot patrol the park for a certain time because of military maneuvers, but what they're actually doing is cutting down trees and poaching," he said.


Very sad and very complicated...

But - I think these blogs are an amazing way of addressing this...it isn't foreigners coming to write about the problems, but local people who know the situation and can put perspective on it.[foreigners are there with wildlife direct but it is actually the rangers writing these blogs] Donors and media organizations hear about them through the blogs and report about them (and also people can donate money for supplies and so the rangers can finally get a salary).

This ranger Paulin - above - was arrested recently and I think released - and there is attention on it because of the blogs. I'm sure it's not a perfect solution - and there might well be larger scale solutions for addressing the overall problem - but I think these blogs and wildlife direct have made a huge difference in keeping the situation public or potentially so.


Make cay, not war - Kesmen
 
Posts: 1941 | Location: Washington, DC | Registered: 03 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Travel Deity
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Interesting

The UN is investigating now and there is no mention of the conservationists comments that government soldiers may have done it, from the National Geographic above.

I wonder who the UN is consulting and why they don't even mention this (the conservationist and rangers seem to think is plausible, unless National Geographic is mistaken to quote them). I suppose it is easier for the UN to say it couldn't do anything when it appears that it is just senseless killing rather than try to understand a complex problem. This sounds like something I have heard that before in connection with the UN's work...


Make cay, not war - Kesmen
 
Posts: 1941 | Location: Washington, DC | Registered: 03 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Tinker, Bounder, Scoundrel, Cad.
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quote:
"There is grave concern for the mountain gorillas as the latest killings are inexplicable: they do not correspond to traditional poaching where animals are killed for commercial purposes," UNESCO said.


This is why UN agencies have always proven useless in Africa. They continue to look for the economic motivations behind sociopathic problems.

The killing of gorillas in Virunga are wholly different than the poaching of elephants and kudu. The latter are killed so that some local warlord can sell the ivory to feed his army. The former are killed because the perpetrators find it entertaining to kill things. Mystery solved. The solution will require African Union and UN forces to actively seek out (and kill) bad people. Nothing complicated or inexplicable about it.



______________________________________________________________________________

Please note: the above member, who is the very model of a modern major-general, with information vegetable, animal, and mineral, has retired from BnA and won't be able to answer any follow-up questions. If you really need to speak with him, use the PM function. Please direct all Schengen visa questions here. Likewise, expat questions go here. Remember to vote tiger penis. Oh, and if possible, be kind to Jester and Stoo.
 
Posts: 1999 | Location: Retired. | Registered: 30 June 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
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The rangers who work there seem to think it is government soldiers who don't get paid and benefit from the illegal charcoal trade, rather than sociopaths.

I agree with you that considering it "inexplicable" can often be a cop out, and one that the UN and international community has used in Europe too.


Make cay, not war - Kesmen
 
Posts: 1941 | Location: Washington, DC | Registered: 03 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Tinker, Bounder, Scoundrel, Cad.
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quote:
Originally posted by KateL57:
The rangers who work there seem to think it is government soldiers who don't get paid and benefit from the illegal charcoal trade, rather than sociopaths.


Oh, I don't doubt it. The DRC army has always made a solid safe haven for sociopaths. Smile Charcoal is as good an excuse as any other for your average group of crazies, but economics isn't at the heart of the matter. It's an impulse towards control, power, and sadism, and it can't really be fought with diplomacy.

And, by and large, one might consider their army and law enforcement units "regional militias" by another name, as it's difficult to separate their bids for local power from that of groups identifying themselves explicitly as "rebels." Yet another reason UN missions generally fail in the region: they tend to treat any group with a patch, crest, or flag (i.e. groups that look like them) like an organized, well-intentioned, legitimate ally. As a result, they simply empower one disfunctional warlords rather than another. Doesn't change anything.



______________________________________________________________________________

Please note: the above member, who is the very model of a modern major-general, with information vegetable, animal, and mineral, has retired from BnA and won't be able to answer any follow-up questions. If you really need to speak with him, use the PM function. Please direct all Schengen visa questions here. Likewise, expat questions go here. Remember to vote tiger penis. Oh, and if possible, be kind to Jester and Stoo.
 
Posts: 1999 | Location: Retired. | Registered: 30 June 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Travel Deity
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My concern would be that attributing something like this to senselessness really precludes finding a solution if one of the causes is that people are just extremely poor.

There are different stories on the blogs about poachers and people doing illegal fishing, and the rangers do their job and stop the people...it is obviously in the long-term interest of the country to keep the natural resources and wildlife around...but a lot of the people engaged in this are not warlords but very clearly people who don't have a means of earning income.

The rangers are obviously good guys...they also went through a long period of hardship, including the war. But it just seems like addressing widespread poverty, in addition to stopping whoever is killing gorillas, would be a more effective solution in the long run.

But - Continental Op - now that we have agreed on the value of Trappist cheese elsewhere, I'm confident we can find common ground here too...

quote:
Yet another reason UN missions generally fail in the region: they tend to treat any group with a patch, crest, or flag (i.e. groups that look like them) like an organized, well-intentioned, legitimate ally.


This sounds like something I can agree with and fit into what I know of other cases too.


Make cay, not war - Kesmen
 
Posts: 1941 | Location: Washington, DC | Registered: 03 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Tinker, Bounder, Scoundrel, Cad.
Picture of Continental Op
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quote:
Originally posted by KateL57:
...but a lot of the people engaged in this are not warlords but very clearly people who don't have a means of earning income.


If by "this" you mean "poaching in general," I'd agree with you. Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying all the poaching that goes on in the park is the work of raving psychotics. Folks need to eat, and the DRC has always been more interested in preserving natural resources than preserving people. (If it's a choice between your starving children and a rare kudu bull, by all means kill the kudu bull.) The majority of poaching could indeed be solved by restoring the economic vitality of the region.

I don't think we're in disagreement on that front.

I'm saying that, in the case of these gorillas, we're not dealing with poor, hungry people trying to make a point by killing animals the park holds dear. Here we're dealing with those lunatics who enjoy killing. Hence the savage nature of the killings. This is the product of bored, restless, and sociopathic personalities.



______________________________________________________________________________

Please note: the above member, who is the very model of a modern major-general, with information vegetable, animal, and mineral, has retired from BnA and won't be able to answer any follow-up questions. If you really need to speak with him, use the PM function. Please direct all Schengen visa questions here. Likewise, expat questions go here. Remember to vote tiger penis. Oh, and if possible, be kind to Jester and Stoo.
 
Posts: 1999 | Location: Retired. | Registered: 30 June 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Travel Deity
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quote:
If by "this" you mean "poaching in general," I'd agree with you.
Poaching specifically that I have read about at the wildlifedirect blogs...I'm sure some of it doesn't fit that, but there have been a number of cases where it has.
--
Well, I don't know that you're wrong about the reason for the killing, but I guess I'd look for a reason to disbelieve the rangers..?

On that npr clip someone mentioned one possible motive as gaining attention...connected to "more attention is given for gorillas killed than people killed." Your point about the nature of the crime may be a good one though.

Still, it just seems like "poverty" explains an awful lot. To err is human (or whatever), so I suppose the rangers could happen to be mistaken, but it doesn't seem like they have an incentive to frame it this way if it's not true.

International organizations tasked with doing something about this gorilla killing, on the other hand, do have an incentive to prefer a simpler explanation - because dealing with poverty is a huge task, much harder than locking up or killing a few crazy people. I'm no expert, but I also think international organizations often come in and take responsibility for alleviating poverty...if it persists, they have some share of the responsibility. And it seems pretty rotten to stick some people in the dangerous position of protecting a park that local people see as an obstacle to making a living, but not address the reason the park is really in danger.

Continental Op, you deserve some kind of award for putting up with me for this long.

I think this is a worthwhile topic that public attention can help (I hope so anyway) - and I hope it is resolved somehow.


Make cay, not war - Kesmen
 
Posts: 1941 | Location: Washington, DC | Registered: 03 August 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Tinker, Bounder, Scoundrel, Cad.
Picture of Continental Op
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quote:
Originally posted by KateL57:
Continental Op, you deserve some kind of award for putting up with me for this long.


Not at all. You're the one putting up with me. Unfortunately, as my ex's can tell you, there's no monetary award large enough for it. Smile



______________________________________________________________________________

Please note: the above member, who is the very model of a modern major-general, with information vegetable, animal, and mineral, has retired from BnA and won't be able to answer any follow-up questions. If you really need to speak with him, use the PM function. Please direct all Schengen visa questions here. Likewise, expat questions go here. Remember to vote tiger penis. Oh, and if possible, be kind to Jester and Stoo.
 
Posts: 1999 | Location: Retired. | Registered: 30 June 2005Reply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post
Knows What a Schengen Visa Is