BootsnAll Travel Community

i just joined the boards here and am having a great time reading various threads.
i think it's my time for an initial question:
vague: i wanted to go skiing this summer, so i bought a plane ticket to buenos aires for the first week in June. i am there for about 2 months. all i know is that i want to do some hiking/backpacking, i am moderate at spanish, and i want to ski a bunch.
money is quite tight.
off the top of my head, i'd love to backpack to macchu pichu and ski at bariloche and maybe los lenas. i would love to get to patagonia to do some travelling, but i've heard the trails are covered in snow so unless i was with a guided tour it would be rough.
what do you all suggest i do? what is a logical/economical order? i will have winter camping gear, living out of a backpack and ski bag, but when i travel i'll need to leave skis some where.

obviously my research is not complete, but i'd like some preliminary examples of itineraries, ideas of when to go where and where to go in general, etc.
thanks so much.

I had that idea too, to go skiing in Arg/Chile, and I abandoned it.
If you live close to ski slopes in Salt Lake City, the ski resorts in South Am will not impress you. It looks like skiing in Argentina and Chile is next to luxury, and the prices are quoted only in foreign currencies. It's not a popular sport.
It might be worth a try anyway.

For Machu Picchu, to start with, you can look at other topics on this branch.
It's quite a distance from Bariloche in Argentina to MP, Peru.

Good advice above on the ski situation. Going to SA to ski is great if you have buko bucks. But as a primary activity for a first trip...nah. Save the money and wait until the season in the US. Better all round.

But... if you don't ski... then what. You mention backpacking to MP. I presume you think you are going to hike the Inca Trail. NOPE.. the trail has been booked for months. Anyway, for lots of reasons that I won't bother with here.. the Inca Trail to MP is one of the most overrated hikes in the western hemisphere. BUT you still can go to MP. Get yourself to Cusco. Tons of agencies that will sell you a train ticket to MP. You go for the day. That is all you need. Great location but second rate Inca architecture. But if you don't go while in Peru everyone will think you crazy.

Spend a week or two in the Cusco area. The Urubamba valley has lots to do. Most can be reached by cheap local buses. Get yourself a guide book. Not Lonely Planet. Tours and such are best booked locally. Cheaper and it keeps the money with the locals and not with some drug peddling gringo expat.
Along that line...avoid Loki.

Now.. where to go. If you are clueless to South America..do this.., I know it sounds hokey but it works. Go to the library. Get some books on SA. Not the guide books yet. Get the ones with lots of photos. Look through. Every time you see a photo that you think is way cool... take a note. That gives you a list of things to see.

Next.. plot them on a map and connect the dots. Now, you get your guidebook and figure out how to get from one to the other. If money is tight then you are mostly traveling by bus. Hardly any trains. Exceptions will be noted in books. One cheap flight is the Lima to Cusco although I can make an argument for the bus.

Biggest mistake made by newbies... trying to do too much. 2 months=2 countries. Peru and Bolivia are a good pair. Peru and Ecuador are fine... you could even get to the area of Bolivia around La paz. Brazil.. just Brazil. Arg.. maybe another country but if its not Chile you will need to fly. Colombia is safe if you ask locals. Venezuela... doable. It will be much nicer after Chavez is killed. Bolivia-see my earlier post. Don't worry about pre-booking hotels and buses. That is incredibly anal and only done on super major holidays. Once you have got a rough itinerary..and it's ok to change it.. then come and post some specific questions.. ie. hotel recs, holiday issues. See my site for safety and money ideas and ask for clarification. Post your itinerary so we can comment on feasibility.

One more thing. I just saw the comment about winter camping gear. No matter what... leave it at home. Odds are you aren't camping. That is the best way to end up pulling a train. For particular hikes and such you can rent.

I'm doing a bit of planning for a similar trip. I plan on 5 months in Argentina/Chile. My Spanish is quite a bit less than moderate, so I plan on spending a couple of weeks in BsAs - checking things out and taking some Spanish lessons. Some other things that have made my list are: Igauzu Falls, Salta, Mendoza, Easter Island, El Calafate to Ushuaia, the lakes crossing from Puerto Montt to Bariloche and skiing @Cerro Catedral with possible side trips to Las Lenas and Valle Nevada. Possibly some surfing on the west coast.

I'm faced with some of the same things you are - storing skis and gear. The South American Explorers Club offers storage in its clubhouses for members - clubhouses are located in BsAs, Lima, Cusco and Quito. Might be worth checking out, membership looks like a real bargain to me.

My own motivation for skiing is because I'm passionate about it - not too concerned with being disappointed with a ski area. Skiing on a less than impressive mountain is better than not skiing, but for specific information on skiing, check out the forums on Teton Gravity Research's site.

That's about all I've got. Good luck

this is great discussion, thank you to each of you so much for everything so far.

i, too, am not too concerned about being disappointed. i have a passion for skiing and i think I want to gain one for travelling. I intend to combine them and I think this will be the best way. I will take my ski bag, and I suppose if I don't use it as much as I planned that's fine. I appreciate the input, but I think I would like to spend a month skiing in Bariloche or Las Lenas.

And although I'm in SLC now, I'm not from here....I can still be impressed by Vermont skiing, too. I'm from Ohio!

MP: wasn't planning on the inca trail--this whole guided, "lame" hike deal isn't really my thing. I guess I was talkingmore about the Camino Salcantay I've heard and read a bit about.
If I were to do that...I believe I'd need winter camping gear. Plus, I don't want to be in hostels all of the time, I'd like to get "out there" and I think doing some camping is the best idea. I guess I'm looking for the best way to do so. But again, I really appreciate what you're saying, you all seem super knowledgeable.
I'm also glad I'm not being made fun of for my lack of planning thus far.

When it comes to Cusco...what is the best way to get there? should i go to somewhere like bariloche first and try to get settled in (to leave my ski gear, make flying into argentina not pointless, etc)? You say there is lots to do there in the Urubamba valley...such as what? is there skiing in peru? And I'd still like to hike to MP for a couple of days; isn't that possible still?

i like the 2 country idea. i know i want argentina to be one of them for this trip...maybe arg and peru?

can i get a little more information on an argentina itinerary? such as what is a good amount of time to stay in buenos aires (considering I have ski bag and stuff) and what should i do there (I know mountains aren't really there...so what should I do? and stay in hostels?).

the thing is, I feel like i should do peru earlier in the trip (june) so it's earlier in winter, and then go skiing later (july)....BUT i am flying into argentina. so what should I do?

thank you so much.

OK... say you do a month in Argentine.. or even a tad more. Maybe the rest in Peru. Logistically it is a long way. Bus service is good. Fastest bus would be over the Andes to Chile and then straight up. Cutting across Bolivia is a possibility. You need those dots.

As to camping. Just to clarify. You don't camp near population centers. There are no places and it's flat out not safe. People camp when on multi-day hikes. Anytime there is such a hike there will be agencies that rent gear. Once you get a rough itinerary, figure out the max number of nights camping.. checking back here. Then figure if it is worth the effort to hump camping gear every day. I've seen thousands of backpackers itineraries. Only a handful have been such that camping is done frequently. You have lack of safe camp sites. Couple that with the fact that really cheap hotel rooms can be found and why bother? In Peru you only camp on long hikes.

About alternate hikes to MP. The 2 day hike is on the Inca Trail. Same restrictions. You are too late. Ever since the limits were placed on number of folks on the trail, alternate hikes have become popular. To the extent that during high season several of those need to be booked ahead. If you are looking at doing any hiking in that reason then you need to book now. Get a PEru guidebook. Google some Cusco agencies.

What else to do in Cusco? Sorry, but that raises some questions of how much do you know about the region. How much do you know about the Incas? do some reading. Cusco was the capital of the Inca Empire. Large amounts of original architecture is still there. Far better quality than what you will see in MP. Remember..the Incas abandoned MP. The valley is filled with villages that in many ways are little changed. I've some photos on my web site.

You ask about what else to do in Arg. Patagonia is great but the weather is going to be a bitch. To the north is Iquasu Falls, one of the top five things to see in South America. Also in the north is the Mission District. NO.. not like in San Francisco with a bunch of limp wristers and homeless. But rather this is the area the Jesuits set up their missions during colonial times. They organized the Indians into highly advanced communities. The ruins and the cultural legacy remain. The movie the Mission, with deNiro, put 150 years history into a seeming few months. BA is a highly sophisticated city. Bring decent clothes or the women will spit in your face. BA considers itself another world about the rest of the country. In some ways it is more like Madrid or Paris.

As far as storing skis and other gear. Most backpackers hotels will store gear. For long term there may be a fee. I have a place in La Paz where I have regularly left stuff for a month. SA Explorers club was a great idea 25 years ago. Today... no explorers there. Just a relic staffed by folks that are timid at best.

About where to stay... everywhere you will find small, family run hotels where a private room is just a few dollars. Bathroom may be down the hall, in which case you save a couple dollars. Hostels.. and note it has multiple meanings.. used to be one of those places I just mentioned but with a couple larger rooms set aside as dorms.

Lately Latin America has seen the growth of what I call MacHosteals. They cater to a chain smoking Eurotrash poser clientele. These folks seldom venture outside the place. And why should they? As a group they hold locals in contempt. The place usually has a restaurant where they can get non-native food, cheap beer and of course drugs are readily available. Often from staff.. who are fellow backpackers stopping to work for two weeks. or even management. Were you to be an accountant you might wonder where they got the money to open these places. Can you say laundering? If you should go to one...realize that reports of petty theft by fellow guests are almost as common as reports of bed bugs. But they do have enough funds to pay for good reviews in LP guides.

Two things to add to a great thread.

1. If you plan on skiing, buy medical insurance. Skiing at best can be dangerous, even on easy slopes. All it takes is one idiot to get in your way or one icy patch,and BOOM. One expensive trip to the medical clinic. How do I know? I work at a ski resort, and even the best skiiers get hit eventually. You want good medical insurance or a wad of cash to show to the hospital to get first rate care or an evac home.

2. When you do get around to get a guidebook, don't make it Lonely planet. Its great for Asia, acceptable for Europe, and not acceptable for the Americas. I like the Footprints guide for SA available at Amazon.com. Its thick, but then you have flexibility as to where you want to go. Wherever you go, the guide will help you with lodging and activities, even if it is a MacHostel. LP won't even get you that far sometimes.

If you speak Spanish, its a very good guide indeed. The best maps are gotten from LP books, but the FP maps are improving fast. So, if you want great maps, go to the library and photocopy the maps of the cities you plan to see.

a great thread indeed.
again, thanks to each of you for your contributions. knowledge obviously is prevalent here.

goodtimebob: i have indeed looked at your very informative website and thank you for putting it together.

roughly, how does this sound:
fly into buenos aires first week of june
spend maybe 4 days in buenos aires, leave skis there
take a bus north to iguazu falls
do various things in northern argentina (such as..?)
take a bus to cusco, peru
spend some time in peru (possibly MP, all of Cusco, etc)
after i'm done there, head back (via chile maybe?)
and get back to argentina, with the remainder of my time in bariloche or mendoza/las lenas.


I will get a Peru guidebook as it now looks like my time will be split between the two countries. i do, in fact, have the footprints argentina guide already, and that is what I've been doing current research from. I'm about 1/2 way through it.

a couple of questions -- based on those destinations, what are other great things you have experienced in those cities that I should try to get to? what else is great in northern argentina? should i go to lima, also, in peru?
Additionally, torres del pine and patagonia and Ushuaia and El Calafate and those other southern areas...are those worth the effort in the winter? is some backpacking feasible down there (I'm having a hard time find that information online) in june or july?)

wonderful thank you!

You may want to look into the Quebrada de Humahuaca north of Salta in Argentina. If you like beautiful, remote (very remote) mountainous villages well off the gringo trail, this is it. I especially recommend the adobe village and cobbled streets of Humuhuaca and the crazy bus ride to Iruya, a small mountain village and the equally amazing town of Tilcara which is hard to leave. The Quebrada is the place Argentinians go to when they travel, and for good reason.

Oh, and when I was in Torres del Paine a guide told me that when he led a trip in the winter they hiked through waist deep snow in the higher terrain. The summer was brutal enough for me, but maybe I'm a softie.

quote:

Originally posted by djxtreme:
MP: wasn't planning on the inca trail--this whole guided, "lame" hike deal isn't really my thing. I guess I was talkingmore about the Camino Salcantay I've heard and read a bit about.

I did Salkantay trail last Sept. I arrived to Cuzco, booked and went on the trail two days later. Paid about US$190. You'll be able to book through your hostel or any tour agent in Plaza de Armas (the main square).
From what I gathered, having talked to people who did Inca trail, Salkantay is equally good, or maybe better. It's less popular, being twice as long as Inca trail, and 5 days instead of 4 (not everyone is that fit on higher altitudes).
Two things that I liked were that we had pack horses (I wouldn't like a poor local peruvian to carry my backpack), and that we camped in the wilderness, with a few tents, while on Inca trail 300 people were cramped together, in a camp site. The 5 d/4 n trek is recommended.

(it's c/p from another travel site where I answered to similar topic - in case you already read that)

Blimey ski-ing must be SO cheap in the States if you rule it out in SA down to cost. I stayed in Ushuaia and the deals were seriously cheap as chips compared to Europe!! I can't tell you how good it was though as high winds shut the slopes for 3 days!!

About the last two posts.. First, I don't like to use pack animals in Latin America. They are so often poorly treated. A farmer will husband his plow horse. But anyone dealing with tourists seems more inclined to overwork them due to the urge to make the relatively high profit. As to that porter... if you don't hire him... what does he do..sit around the house watching TV? No.. his family starves. The porters on the Inca Trail and similar are far better paid than their counter parts who haul goods around the Cusco market at a third the salary.

As to skiing.. while not a biggie with me, the rates I saw in Chile seemed high. Gotta admit I'm spoiled since I live 20 miles from a ski resort. I met up with a group of Italian mountain climbers in La Paz, Bolivia at the Hostal Republica. They were spending the summer there. They had 5 major ascents planned. The whole trip, flights, hotels, meals and cost of climbs... most of which were better than anything they could get in Europe was cheaper than what it would cost them to climb one major peak back home.

Thanks so much for this information everyone. It has really given me a base to start planning from.
Here's where I'm currently at: fly into buenos aires, spend a couple of days there, and find somewhere (such as a bus station) to leave my skis, and then start travelling northward by bus. i would ideally do this all the way to peru, so I don't have to deal with being at point X on day Y so i can catch a flight to peru. but is bussing it all the way there unreasonable?
then, after you tell me how to get to peru, i'll spend a couple of weeks or a month in peru before returning to argentina (by bus? maybe go northwest on the way to peru and southeast on the way down (iguazu falls,etc)) to ski for the last month (picking my skis up in BA) and then going to bariloche or las lenas or whereever the snow is good.)
So, how is this sounding for everyone?
Additioanlly, what's my best bets for Peru for June? I am definitely taking camping gear now for some longer treks, so I'll have that option....just throw ideas out. thank you.

I just noticed... you are in Salt lake City. And you are going down there to ski? Man.. you are going to be disappointed. That is like someone from Miami flying to Bournemouth, England for a beach vacation.

OK.. lets try and keep you alive for part of the trip. But if you are going to try some serious camping, at least bring along a set of dental xrays.

Skis... no to leaving them in the bus station. Your best bet is to find a semi-decent hotel in BA. Kind that has a private room with daily maid service and a toilet with a seat. If you can flush the paper down the toilet then you know you are styling..though the last is rare in SA. But at least that class hotel is probably safe for your skis. Can't say if there will be a fee but if so it will be minimal. Hint.. give a nice tip to the guy who puts them in storage. Tip him again when you get them.. after all you may want to do it again. In fact.. to accomplish most anything in a backpacker hotel in this case a $5 tip will bump you to the top of the list.. especially if he thinks there are more coming.

No, not telling you how to get to Peru. In the front of what ever guidebook you buy there will be a transportation chapter. BTW.. guidebooks. It's pretty well established now that the majority of Lonely Planet authors in Latin America either fake their info or take kickbacks from places they review. You might want to consider Moon. Anyway, the details will be there. Ormeno is an international bus that runs a route from BA to Lima. If not passing through Cusco it is easy to branch off. My book is too far for me to bother this time of night.

Camping. You are set on it so fine. How about this? Tell us, as detailed as possible, where you plan to camp. I'll be happy to rate your survival odds.

Forgot to ask. Do you have any interests in Peru other than hiking and camping? They have lots of rocks piled up all over. If you happen to be a surfer there are some monster waves in the far north. It would really push your schedule though.

Yup: going down there to ski, and have talked to many other skiers of my caliber that have absolutely loved it.

I don't really understand the dental xrays.

I'm considering couchsurfing my time in BA (3 days-ish) and hopefully will meet someone who will be willing to hang on to my ski gear for a month. I understand it's a risk. I'll see how it goes when I'm down there.

And I have guidebooks already, footprint, for both countries. I understand how LP tends to sucks. Like I said, I assume I will be taking buses from Argentina north an then to Peru. I just am unsure of the feasability of this, considering I will want to stop a variety of places on the way and not just go BA to Lima.

I am struggling to find what is possible in Peru in June. I am not very concerned about "surviving" in the cold, haha. I have done plenty of winter camping, and I know for a fact there is a lot of backpacking to be done around there. I'm just struggling to choose where to go and whcih to do.

And I'm not a surfer...but thanks for the idea. That might be another trip :-)

Just wanted to re-iterate my recommendation for a membership to the South American Explorer's club - $50/year and then you can store your skis at their clubhouse in BsAs, not to mention the other benefits.

I did a trip last year with skis - The first part was skiing, the 2nd part was general touring. Thought I'd ship 'em home - woulda cost more than they were worth so ended up storing in a locker in London. In retrospect, that ended up costing quite a bit too - anyhow, no point to this, other than I know where you're coming from

the dental x-ray was a bit of jab....saying that if camping, the only way you'll be identified is...well from dental x-rays cuz of, you know, the brutal death

About the skis.
That is something that would bother me, taking my own skis for a long trip. As you can see it's already a problem to find a place to store them, when you travel to other places. Dragging your owns skis all the way to South Am is yet another problem. What about ski boots?

Airlines in Europe started charging extra fees for skis. (I don't know though if they do it elsewhere too). So, I don't use my skis anymore (unless I ski locally), and take only my ski boots with me.
Why don't you just rent when you're there? It might be a bit more expensive, but, I'd think it's worth it.

I'd consider scheduling my trip around when the ski resorts open and then put them in the ski shop for a nice tune and wax. Let them know you'll be back in a month to pick them up.