BootsnAll Travel Community

I really don't know that it would help. The best thing to do is just to ask questions to let them know that you are aware and informed about the conditions. If you are comfortable, ask them how much they pay their porters, how many meals they get, and where they sleep. It may not change the outcome, but by asking the questions you are showing them that the public is aware and concerned, which may help them to change their behavior.

Regardless of the company, most porters only get one or two meals a day. (They may often get to eat any leftovers from the campers as well, and if you wanted to offer one of them a clif bar or a snack from your bag I'm sure they'd appreciate it.) If you are on the Marangu route, they will sleep in huts, but on the other routes they will either sleep in the mess tent or a separate porters tent. The problem with sleeping in the mess tent is that the porters then have to wait for all the campers to finish eating before they can go in and rest.

The most important thing is to tip your porters directly, and not tip through the company or guide. That way you can be sure that the porters actually recieve the amount you intended for them. As of July 1, there is a minimum wage that companies are supposed to be paying their porters (6,000 shillings a day for Marangu route, and 8,000 shillings a day for the camping routes), but most companies are paying around half that, so tips are imnportant. The recommended tip is $5/day per porter. You should pool your tips as a group and then distribute the tips directly to the porters either on your last night on the mountain, or at your last breakfast the day you finish your trip.

Hope this helps. Also, if you are coming from the U.S. and are able to carry an extra bag with you to Tanzania, KPAP has approx 600 lbs of clothing and gear in the US that they need couriers for. You can find out more on their website.

Tim

I am planning a trip to Kili for end of Jan-Feb and I think red6's idea about the Colorado Mountain Club makes a lot of sense. Could you tell me the basics of your trip and how much they quoted the price. Have a great trip and would love to hear if you liked the Marangu outfitters.
Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by red6:
Boy I can't wait to post my experiences here! I'll be climbing Kilimanjaro during the first two weeks of September. I considered many outfitters. Seems there are many front companies for Zara. My initial desire was to book through Tusker or Kiliwarrior. But then a friend of mine said he would go if I found a cheaper outfitter. So I was thinking about going through 7summits.com. They use Zara but I was hoping they had the pull to get the better guides for their groups. I don't know. It does seem, though, like whenever I read about a bad experience with an outfitter on Kili its usually Zara. So after searching and searching for an alternative I settled on the Marangu Hotel. Not solely on Gard's trip report posted on this site but because I found it is the outfitter the Colorado Mountain Club's High Altitude Mountaineering Section uses and has used on several past trips. Of course they bring their own leaders... Plus I have read other trip reports posted by people that have used the Marangu Hotel with nothing but good things to say about them. The Marangu Hotel seems to be good price wise too being not a whole lot more than Zara. I will let yall know on my return!

quote:

Originally posted by LeeZ:
I am planning a trip to Kili for end of Jan-Feb and I think red6's idea about the Colorado Mountain Club makes a lot of sense. Could you tell me the basics of your trip and how much they quoted the price. Have a great trip and would love to hear if you liked the Marangu outfitters.
Cheers

Our trip is the basic 7 day Machame with stops at Machame camp, Shria, Barranco, Karanga, Barafu, then on to the summit and down to Mweka, then out. Included are 2 nights at the hotel before the trek and one night after as well as breakfasts and dinners while at the hotel, transportation to and from the airport, trek fee, and national park fees. Total quoted was $1620 per person. I'll provide a complete report on my return in September (about the 3 week of the month) on this outfitter as well as observations of other outfitters I see on the mountain.

Red6, you mentioned in your posts that whenever you have read about a bad experience with an outfitter on Kili, it is usually Zara. I have searched for bad reviews on Zara and failed to find any. I am trying to get a balanced view on the company, so where are the bad reports?

Yes, searching on the internet you will find many recommendations for Zara. Plus you will find very few bad experiences regarding any outfitter. But after reading hundreds of trip reports, and the couple of news accounts, it struck me that Zara was involved somehow in the few "bad" situations where an outfitter was named. However most of the bad accounts I found did not name the outfitter. And yes some accounts are a few years old. But I did contact the International Mountain Explorers Connection and they currently did not have any positive comments about Zara's porter treatment regarding pay and conditions while on the mountain. That, I think, was the one thing that put Zara out of consideration for me. Obviously I have no first hand experience with them but I will ask people while on the mountain who their outfitter is and what they think, and report back. I did not bookmark any of the trip reports so I don't have a link to point you to. All I can say is search and read...

kootenay

I just read ovethehill's post about Thomson Treks. He has experience with Zara. You should read that post and ask him any further questions.

We went up to London last weekend and met a really nice helpful guy called Andy in the North Face store.... he climbed Kili with Zara about a year ago and he said they were great and he gave us loads of really useful advice.

He said the equipment and food was all good and that his guide and porters were excellent, really professional and friendly. But they do rely on getting good tips.

Re. the porters not being paid very much, according to him, they're not paid all that well (or that's what the porters said anyway) but Zara actually started up the Mt. Kili Porters Society (MKPS) in 2004 and they negotiated a pay rise for all porters in July this year.www.kilimanjaroporters.com

He's the second person we've spoken to who climbed with Zara - the other person was a friend of ours who climbed with them a couple of years ago - he also recommended Zara.

Does anyone know if 7summits use the Zara guides and porters?

7summits have a good website with lots of really helpful FAQ's - www.7summits.com

All this info really helped us and I hope it helps others.

We should be booking our trip this week and at the moment it looks like we will go with Zara... watch this space!.

For info. www.zaratravel.com

Kelly

Mt. Kili Porters Society (MKPS) seems more like a marketing gimmick that Zara set up. Notice they are the ONLY sponsor of the orginization. The people you want to contact about porter treatment on kilimanjaro should be the Kilimanjaro Porters Assistance Project (KPAP) www.kiliporters.org . Notice there that most of the major outfitters are listed as partners. Only major ones I don't see there are Mountain Madness, Abercrombie & Kent, ... and also no Zara.

As far as 7summits.com goes, here's a couple of interesting articles about the guy that runs that outfit:

http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?id=10201
http://www.mounteverest.net/news.php?id=3310

Did you take the 9 day trip with Tusker? That's what we've booked, but I've been told that 8 days may be optimum. How was your trip?

quote:

Originally posted by Cheesehead:
During my own trip in 04 I saw the Zara groups on the mountain and was unimpressed. My research led to Tusker because they offered a 9 day up, 2 down trip so we could maximize our chances at altitude at 95%. They are not cheap. A 5 day trip is only a 50% chance. There are many day combinations with different groups.
I didn't discover BootsnAll until after my successful trek but they seam to be centered and go about their business the correct way.
Kiliwarriors is another recent discovery and they boast a 100% success rate but are as expensive as Tusker.
Using this site to ask questions is a great strategy. Learn as much as you can and pick someone you become comfortable with.
It is an outstanding experience.
Good luck,

I'll have to second what Red6 said. I just spent 5 weeks in Moshi, and besides climbing Kili I spent a lot of time volunteering with the Kilimanjaro Porter Assistance Project. Aside from providing clothing for the porters, they also advocate on behalf of the porters for proper wages, load weights, and food/shelter on the moutain. In the low season they teach classes to the porters. English, first aid, HIV/AIDS awareness, and money management. They are not a union, but an independent NGO (non-profit).

One of the things that KPAP does is conduct surveys of both porters and climbers. I spent my time with them compiling and analyzing the survey data, which included things like average wages, average tips, load weights, etc.

As for Zara's porters society and their pay raise, the pay raise was actually something that was agreed upon by not just Zara, but by a group of tour operators in agreement with the Kilimanjaro National Park. Previously, the recommended wage on the mountain was 6,000 Tsh (~$5) per day for the Marangu route, and 8,000 ~($6) Tsh per day on the tent camping routes. As of July 1, this was supposed to become a minimum wage instead of a recommended wage. However, very, very few of the companies are actually paying the minimum wage, and based on the survey data I compiled the average daily wage actually being paid is still around 4,000 Tsh a day.

KPAP's website (www.kiliporters.org) does have a list of recommended partners. These are tour operators that KPAP knows to be paying the minimum wage, providing adequate equipment, and regulating the wieghts of the porters loads. Some of the companies are the higher end companies, but there are also some budget companies as well. Marangu Hotel is one that I've heard recommended a lot.

Keep in mind that due to the increase in Park fees, it's hard to find a "budget" trip. Park fees are $60/day and $40/night, lso a 7 day/6 night climb will set you back $680. If a tour operator is offering you a trip for $800-1000, that means they are only spending $120-320 on food, equipment, wages, etc.

As for my climb, I climbed with MEM Tours, and had a fantastic experience with them. Unfortunately, they are one of the many companies paying low wages, but the quality of the trip was outstanding, and we made sure that the guides and porters were tipped very well. I've posted a day by day account of my climb on my blog if anyone is interested.

Tim

My wife and I just finished (2 days ago) a successful 6 day climb with Zara and were 100% happy with the experience.

Don't believe the hype about them being lower quality...we saw a bunch of other tour groups on the mountain and we didn't see anything that would have made us choose differently. In fact, the Zara porters/guides seemed to be treated better than any of the porters/guides from the "pricy" operations.

Bottom line: If you're looking for a high quality experience and don't feel like wasting a couple grand, go with Zara. Our group of 6 all felt we'd made the right choice.

Thank you to 'itsfiveoclocksomewhere'. Your first hand report is better than the second hand or we saw a zara group report posted by others.
Anyone else with actual experience of being with a zara group, please post it.

Yes, thanks 'itsfiveoclocksomewhere'.

We're going up with Zara on the 1st November. Just out of curiosity which route did you take?

We don't want to meet with too many crowds and want to see the best parts of the mountain if possible.

At the moment we're between Lemosho, Rongai and Umbwe.
We're not sure about Umbwe because it's the toughest route and being tired can make AMS worse.

Any first hand accounts of the routes would be really good to hear.

Kelly

We went up the Marangu (with the extra acclimatization day at Horombo), and were pleasantly surprised to find that it wasn't nearly as crowded as I'd heard it might be. It's a beautiful route, not to get all misty or anything, but seriously, it's stunning, especially when you get up near Kibo Hut and you're looking up at Mawenzi on one side and Kili on the other.

My first hand experience is limited to Marangu, but other groups at the hotel went up Machame and Rongai, and everyone I talked to told stories of a very scenic climb and high success rates.

Hope this helped, any more questions just ask.

no worries,
Ryan

OK, I'm back from my trip and just wanted to report on this. As we ascended I watched a Zara group that was on the same route and schedule as us and talked with a couple people in the Zara group about their experiences. Based on my observations and discussions with the group members I can not report any negative impression of Zara as far as experience on the mountain goes. I still question their porter treatment though...

Hi Red

How was your trip?

Red6 how was Marangu Hotel? I was waiting to hear from you before I booked my own trip?

Hope you had a good time!!

So no one covered for me here at work while I was away and I've been swamped since my return...

Anyway I would have no problem recommending the Marangu Hotel. Everything was handled well and it is a very nice place to stay because of the grounds. Lots of flowers and area to stretch out. If you're looking to spend about $1600 I would say use them. But I did see a Tusker group on the mountain and have to say if you've got the extra cash it would be well worth it to go with them. Those people were comfortable and relaxed due to all the amenities Tusker brings up the mountain.

Got back from Machame trek with Zara. Here are my observations:

-Porters were dressed sufficiently, except one assistant guide who didn't have gloves. One in our group gave him gloves.

-Tent my husband and I had was actually a summer tent, so we taped the window vents up to provide better warmth.

-Breakfast and Lunch food was average, Dinner was always awesome.

-All support crew was very professional, and our guide, Dismas, was excellent. He had 12 years experience on the mountain.

-Porters do sleep in the dining tent.

-All in all, I would give Zara a C for average. I would give the support crew and our guide an A+. No matter how one looks at it, the job of being a porter pretty much sucks - you gotta give them a lot of credit for what they do and tip them well. So instead of paying some company a lot of money, I felt perfectly fine giving that money directly to my support crew.

I also recently did a trip with Zara on the Machame route, and they seemed OK, not outstanding as a company in general. However, I think a lot has to do with your luck as to who you deal with in the organization. I've also heard stories about underdressed porters -one porter (not with Zara) on another route actually died of hypothermia while we were decending- and bad guides but we saw none of this with our group.
Our guide, Masaudi, really was outstanding, and I think part of that is because we asked repeatedly for a good guide. I would suggest you do the same when you book. I mean, he isnpired confidence in me that he would be helpful were we to run into an emergency on the mountain, not just that we was a nice guy. He was as professional (maybe more so) than most of my co-workers at home.
Also consider your own comfort level. If you have never been up a mountain before or can't run 3 miles, better spend some extra money to be on the safe side. If you are reasonably comfortable with your own abilities and have a good climbing partner save your money. Maybe you'll be pleasantly surprised with an excellent guide like we were, maybe yours will be just average.