BootsnAll Travel Community

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5. You may use profanity on BootsnAll except in situations where it is deemed excessive or used to attack other users.

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I mean this with all due respect, love and acceptance....


That is the nerdiest travel thing I have ever heard. It is almost prototypically geeky. I don't frown or look down on this idea-everyone travels differently and vive le diference- but SHIT. I shudder to think of all that organization going on anywhere near my trip! This is why I came. To be completely disorganized and fly by the seat of my pants.

My hat's off to you, Michael. That's a new one on me. Best of travels.

Okay. The bold italics are me putting "shit" back into my message. Not derogatory. Not excessive. An exclamation. What's up? What is up? Checking the listed rules here. Looks like I'm okay to say the word. So I must have missed something.

You tryin' to stir shit up?

Did a moderator edit your post without saying anything to you?

I though the rule was, if a moderator feels strongly enough about your post to edit/delete it then they need to write you about it.

(Stoo sprinkles anti-moderator dust over the forum to reveal the offending moderator.)

Us lowly non-mod boots must stand up for our rights!

Piecar's use of SHIT was down right innocent in comparison to some of the shit that gets posted around here. Hmph...might have to contact the BCLU (Bootie Civil Liberties Union) for support!

Fight the power,

Stoo

Moderators do not need to inform you when they edit your posts. They generally do so to be polite but there is no rule saying they need to, in fact "We reserve the right to delete your posts and/or ban you from this forum and/or BootsnAll.com without prior warning." From the Posting Guidelines.

I wonder what someone's reason was to edit that inoffensive little 'shit' out of there. I'll be interested to hear the answer.

So. We still don´t know who felt that strongly about my little use of the word shit. I get that you don´t need to tell me when you edit. But I´ve been told that it´s more difficult to edit a post than to delete. So someone had to have a reason. I really hope it´s a good one. I have been feeling that the PC people have really been let loose around here. This edit worries me on that basis. May I ask, oh great and powerful editmongers, who did it , and what the reason was?

Addendum: I just remembered that I had the power to fix the fix. And I spiced it up a bit.

Piecar...you dirty little boot!

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Originally posted by Callilucy:
I wonder what someone's reason was to edit that inoffensive little 'shit' out of there. I'll be interested to hear the answer.

Can you not tell? Or is it pure honor system?

We lowly boots, especially the high posters like piecar, myself and others, really do appreciate the effort you all spend to keep BnA fun, un-TT-like, and spam free. The degree of transparency and discussion in how things work around here (banner ad placement, thread closure policies, etc.) is also highly valued...it is very inclusive and important to keeping contributing boots around.

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They generally do so to be polite but there is no rule saying they need to, in fact "We reserve the right to delete your posts and/or ban you from this forum and/or BootsnAll.com without prior warning."

Maybe this should be revisited, specifically for 'normal' moderators (and not the god-like JessieS, Sean, et al who I cannot imagine bothering with such a tiny edit.) 'Normal' moderators should be more accountable of their moderation activities. Maybe a moderator code of conduct.

Stoo,
As you may note from my title <---- I am no longer a mod; just a regular old member, now. I think moderators are as accountable as they need to be, generally. In instances such as this where people stand up and say, "I don't agree with what you did and I'd like to know why" then they'll follow through and make adjustments where appropriate. Generally mods appreciate it when people do this in a PM, its a a bit more polite. I think Piecar has put his concern forth with enough respect that it won't ruffle feathers but mods don't take members to task in public and they rightfully expect the same in return.

In general in terms of accountability, mods do have a sort of "code of conduct". They have guidelines they adhere to and work together to discuss the best way to handle things. Given the nature of the boards and the fact that mods are volunteers who are on this board in their free time, they often do make decisions on their own. Moderators are people who have garnered trust in the community enough so that we trust them to make such judgement calls. They are here to make the community as a whole a more enjoyable and safe place. I don't think that in order to do this we need to require them to be on a short leash and report directly to you.

I think the majority of the time they do an awesome job of enforcing the guidelines. Obviously everyone does this through their own filter of what's right and wrong. I disagree with the call to remove inane profanity from a post. I agree with Piecar that it wasn't meant in any way to offend or attack another member. It says right in the guidelines that it's allowed. I think its the right thing to do to call the mods attention to it and say, "we have a problem". They're here to make sure nobody goes overboard, not to be a nanny. We're all big kids and can use big kid words. I'm certain that shortly, a mod, most likely Jessie, will step in. Its been over the weekend so I'm sure not many mods have been logged in for very long.

Hello, all...

The short answer, Piecar, is that we don't know who edited your post.

There used to be a mechanism by which every time a post was edited there would be an automatic note added to that post saying, "post edited by (insert name here) by (insert date here)" but we've disabled that for a number of reasons. The main reason we don't like it is that the mods and I will occasionally go into threads, especially thread titles, and correct minor spelling and/or grammatical errors or to make them more clear for anyone who's reading the boards to know what the heck people are talking about. For example, rather than writing a post with the title, "here's a question" it would be more helpful if the subject of the post was in the title so people could know what it was about before clicking on it. Generally speaking, we all try to make a note in the post manually if we've changed something significant (other than a minor spelling change), and I'm sure we don't always remember to do that.

With regard specifically to your post, however, no one has fessed up to editing it. The only people who can edit posts are moderators, BootsnAll staff and the person who wrote the post, so it's a small list - and we haven't yet been able to get anyone to step forward. I agree that it didn't need to be edited - there have been far worse instances of profanity on these boards before, and I'm sure there will be again. It wasn't part of a grand effort to "cleanse" the boards, that much I can tell you.

I'll continue to ask around and see what I can find out. If you've got any more concerns about this, Piecar, please let me know.

Ciao,
Jessie

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As you may note from my title <---- I am no longer a mod;

No, that had escaped me! When did that happen? It seems like just a week or two ago when I last read you last putting booties in their path. I like how you would, after reading someone the riot act, would end many of your posts "Thank you very much."

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"Given the nature of the boards and the fact that mods are volunteers who are on this board in their free time, they often do make decisions on their own

I fully understood the nature of moderatordom when posting the above. But your points in no way negate mine. More specifically...

..."They are here to make the community as a whole a more enjoyable and safe place." Read the post again, my dear moderator bootie. I explicitly say the same thing differently.!

...moderators are more like hallway/bathroom monitors back in grade school than "people who have garnered trust in the community enough so that we trust them".

...a great example of how it should be is like when a few months ago Whalewatcher closed a volatile thread, booties complained, we all (moderators and lowly booties) discussed it here and there, and the thread was reopened with a greater understanding for all.

..."require them to be on a short leash and report directly to you." I did not say that and it is mean for you to imply such. Accountability means knowing who did what. As I post this, the shit-deleter remains unknown and therefor unaccountable. But with the above mentioned thread closure, we all knew what was going on...and was as it should be.

With respect to the code of conduct, we have a public code of conduct for regular boots and, as far as I understand there is no publicly viewable moderator code of conduct.

(Piecar, I think Callilucy has been released of her moderating duties so that she can organize your extra-booticial abduction to an undisclosed hostel in the name of BOOTCOM security with plausible deniability.)

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Originally posted by Stoo:
(Piecar, I think Callilucy has been released of her moderating duties so that she can organize your extra-booticial abduction to an undisclosed hostel in the name of BOOTCOM security with plausible deniability.)

I believe this is said with the same intent as my comment "require them to be on a short leash and report directly to you" , ie. I was kidding! And no, I have not been made a free agent so that I can do super cool Bond-type stuff. Though that would be awesome!

On to other things, I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with you but trying to further elucidate some points while showing that we're on common ground here. Now that you/I've brought it up maybe Jessie will post the moderating guidelines publicly. It was discussed at one point in time and was posted in essence in the chit chat forum when someone had concerns about the mean mods closing threads or something. For the life of me I can't remember what the thread title was or I'd link it here.

As for the hall monitor comparison, I have to say, 'oh please no'. Hall monitors are the nerdy, annoying, oh so full of themselves kids that nobody else can stand yet they have such delusions of power over their menial tasks they go about blissfully unaware. There was a comparison once of the mods being like maitre de, assisting people in finding information they need, guiding them on how to use the resources here and taking care of any unpleasantries that come up now and again. I think that its a decent comparison and certainly better than the hall monitor. Mods do more than censor and pull apart brawling members. They also do what they can to start and continue good conversations, welcome new members and guide people to new features. They do alot of positive things which you most likely don't notice, given what you have to say about them. I don't mean that you've said anything bad, just that its a narrow view of mod duties.

First and foremost...Hats off to Callilucy for an excellent use of the word elucidate!!!!

Second. It has been said by one of the several PMers that I have ignited a SHITstorm with this thread. While I was a little wound up about the minor change at the time, the fact that so many others are worried about the same little change puts me at ease....I was afraid we were straying into, as Stoo aptly put it, hall monitor land. Callilucy concisely put into words Stoo´s point there. She´s a shifty one, our Calli and sly. For The Most Part the comparison is not the case around here. We still have free thinkers in abundance around here, and YEHAAA!

I gotta figure whoever made the change has gone to ground because things have gotten bigger than they expected. Maybe we should just put this SHIT behind us and move on.

All in favour give us a Fuckin´Eh.

Love and Respect, Warm Cookies and Cold Milk, Puppies and Daffodils

D

I think the thread Callilucy was referring to above is this one.

As for a moderator code of conduct, we don't really have one. What I did create late last year is something I can send to potential new mods so they'll know what they're getting into, but that's not the same thing (it's mostly about the technical "how-to" stuff). And yes, while the bulk of what people might see out there is the "monitoring" of the boards, the mods do oh, so much more. Their primary role is that of a facilitator - helping threads stay lively, active and on topic; starting new and interesting threads to generate more conversation; welcoming and encouraging new members; etc. They also move threads if they've been posted in the wrong place and get rid of spam so y'all don't have to be bombarded with it every time you visit.

And Piecar, all I gotta say is, now I want some warm cookies and cold milk. Mmm...

"Facilitator"? OK, so moderators are sorta like not-so-nerdy hall-monitors-cum-Wal-mart entrance greeters. Got it. (I kid because I care. )

And I think using the word elucidate most definately qualifies as nerdy.

The shit-expunger remains incognito. So that is that--this thread will die a quite, lonely death...unless the shit-expunger strikes again at the heart of our community, Piecar's posts!!!

I have to say, this just makes me laugh. I work for an internet poker company with a forum (which I hate with a passion). So I have been on the other side of the forum as well.

Though the poker forum is not as nice when it comes to allowing the players to say what they want. At one point in time, they had a full team that their job was to do nothing but edit posts (24/7).

Not sure what my point is here, but it has been enjoyable to watch/read.

I have a theory.

It was 'drunk facilitating'.
I think that after a couple of beers they becomes like Frasier and Niles Crane. He was reading along quite nicely, when BOOM, this incongruous word popped out at him like Merris on a Monday Morning, yuck. He thought, 'I know..., I have editing powers, and none will be the wiser! I'm all for the occasional flagrante
It was just the placement in the paragraph that proved unworthy to the rest of the post. hmph.'

And that's my theory.