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From what I gather in the little research i have done, you can make enough money off of trading within the NYSE to support yourself day to day on the road. I mean if you had a few thousand dollars(maybe more)to play with, you could buy low and sell high with a different stock every day and make a decent amount of scratch. Am I missing something here? I have known a few people who apparently made a living doing something related to this. Someone inform me quick b4 I quit my job.

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Am I missing something here?

Not as far as I can tell.

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Originally posted by goodlookinrebel:
From what I gather in the little research i have done, you can make enough money off of trading within the NYSE to support yourself day to day on the road. I mean if you had a few thousand dollars(maybe more)to play with, you could buy low and sell high with a different stock every day and make a decent amount of scratch. Am I missing something here?

Yeah, you forgot the part about how you'll know when to buy and when to sell.

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Am I missing something here?

Not as far as I can tell.

Yes but in my experience when something sounds too good to be true then it probably is.

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Yeah, you forgot the part about how you'll know when to buy and when to sell.

I can just tell. My half sisiter is a quarter Cherokee Indian, so I have a sort of genetic instinct. A "Sixth Sense" if you will.

I manage my own investments. So far I've beaten the market every year since I was an undergrad.

Day trading is, in a word, retarded. If you need evidence go look at some of the boards where day traders chat. Average IQ < 65, guarenteed. There is just no reliable way to predict the ups and downs of the market (and certainly not for a single stock), even on a weekly basis, as they respond to so many unpredictable and even unknown variables. Yes, there are a host of (not very reliable) correlators you can look at but any advantage this gives you (if any..) gets eaten by commission fees, and if you're traveling, internet fees as well. In short I'd be impressed if a day trader broke even with the market in the long run. That's why-- get this-- the pros don't do it. I'm not claiming to be anywhere near a pro, but just as an example, I follow the market news and lookover holdings daily, but year-to-date I've made 13 trades, most of which were additions to existing positions.

If you're serious about investment, first you need money. Then you need to decide if you're going to manage your own investments or if you want to let a major brokerage firm take care of your money for you.

Wrong reasons for doing it yourself:
1.) You think you're smarter than wall street's finest
2.) You want to get rich quick
3.) You intend on day trading

Right reasons for doing it yourself:
1.) You're interested in it as a hobby
2.) You have some spare time, spare cash, and no debt
3.) You are willing to put some effort into learning about the markets and following them, and researching your own stocks/funds/whatever.

Good luck!

By the way, my estimates are that the critical mass for continuously funding backpacker-style RTW travel is about $100,000.

Actually, you don't need cash to test whether it works. Try doing it with imaginary money. Here, I'll loan you 20 grand for a week. Go buy and sell as you please. Record everything in excel, but be honest.

When you're done, subtract out 8 bucks for every trade you made (that's right, the sweetest commission you'll find anywhere is right here on BNA) and then whatever you think you spent on internet cafes. If you made money for the week, then handover a percentage to uncle sam corresponding to whatever tax bracket you're in since it was a short term holding.

I'd be interested to know how you did.

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From what I gather in the little research i have done, you can make enough money off of trading within the NYSE to support yourself day to day on the road.

ahhh, the naivety of youth. I remember when I thought I was smarter than the hundreds of thousands of people that have tried to do this and lost money.

Just to go on record for anybody who finds this thread in the future:

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Paraphrase of question asked via pm:
I appreciated your honest advice you were giving about stock trading. It's amazing how many people believe they are going to make a fortune day trading. I'm curious how you came up with the the 100k figure as the critical mass? Thanks

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There's nothing overly scientific about the 100k figure. It's a nice round number at which I think backpacker spending, say $900-$1300/month, would balance with average market returns, which are about 12% historically but slightly higher since 1990. Totally depends on spending habits, market attentiveness, and unfortuantely luck too. I mostly threw the number out there just to give the guy who started the thread a ballpark idea, because he sounded like he wanted to try it with five grand.

and while we are throwing out opinions here, here's mine. i'm going to pretty much agree with genaro and parallel much of his comments.

day trading worked great and was a booming industry during the late 90s tech stock run-up because everything was going up - the average guy just couldn't lose. But as soon as the market as a whole starts declining on the whole, pretty much everyone who tries day trading will lose along with the market. -- the lesson here: Don't day trade to make money - day trade if you have cash you don't mind completely losing and then do it with that money as a hobby.

it's been proven time and again that professional "stock pickers" rarely do better as a group than the broader market. Yes, a few do much better, a few do much worse, but on the average, they are no better than the broad market as a whole. And these are the pros we are talking about. I quote you here GLR:

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I have known a few people who apparently made a living doing something related to this.

my emphasis on "a few" -- out of a large group a few will hit it big, a few will lose big, and the rest will do just about average. you just don't hear losers going around talking about how much they've lost.

in short, i'd say, definitely start investing if you haven't already. Read a whole lot of reputable, realistic, and honest sources, such as The Motley Fool, Smart Money, The Wall Street Journal. Start small, set small, realistic goals, and keep learning all you can about it. Ignore "get rich quick" schemes - that's no different than gambling at Vegas. Yes, you can make money investing, because over time, markets grow- but there are never any guarantees. Have a backup plan -- which means working a job, live cheaply, and save all that you can.

If people really could make a living simply trading stocks, then most people would do that instead of work at a job. Fact is, that's not how it works in the big picture.

just my observations - no need to spear what I say, but I welcome any questions or feedback. Investing can be just as hot a topic as politics, religion, etc --

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day trading worked great and was a booming industry during the late 90s tech stock run-up because everything was going up - the average guy just couldn't lose.

Well I managed to lose money. Does that mean I'm not an average guy?

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I can just tell. My half sisiter is a quarter Cherokee Indian, so I have a sort of genetic instinct. A "Sixth Sense" if you will.

If she's your half sister, and she is a quarter Cherokee, does that mean you only have an eighth of a sixth sense?

Not sure I'd roll the dice with those odds.

Seriously though, genaro and Capt. Steve were spot on in my opinion.

Capt Steve said that if people could make a living trading stocks then people would do so...

Well, they do. I think people just don't know about these people. My grandfather had his own investment company because it's what he did, so he had to create a company for tax reasons. I also used to do this, but right now I don't want to because I can't watch the screen right now. It's not really necessary to watch the screen, actually, but my mind is on other things right now, and I don't feel comfortable. Maybe in a couple of months I'll start again. Or maybe right after I log off here, because I read this thread. I have a pretty good source that I don't want to reveal, a research company that finds companies whose stocks have gone way down for whatever reason, but will be back up within the next two years. Average of 50 percent gain, some are only 30 some are 70. Some go up in two months, some 18 months. I've lost money while travelling, so this time when I start again, I'm going to do something a little differently. In one case my money doubled and I didn't sell. I'm the type that HATES to think about stuff like that, but I'm telling y'all now.

I just have the attitude that it's just money. You have to be willing to wait and not freak out, which means use money that won't send you to the poor house. Bet the kitchen, not the house in other words.

My mom knows this loser that lost thousands of dollars and I'm like how in the &$#*(@&( ? It's because he would freak out everytime the value went down -and sold !... so um...if you like to buy high and sell low...this isn't the deal for you.

Lots of people make a living through investment. Goes without saying. What was being said is that day trading is not wise, and that over time gains will be realistic.

On that note, I'm calling bullshit on the 50% claim. If it was reliably repeatable, everybody on wall street would be doubling his/her money every 18 months. Could you tell us what site that supposedly comes from? If they're a research firm they want people to look at their site.

Since you are considering day trading, you must have a bit of a gamblers spirit in you... so perhaps the more sane individuals around will not have me hung for mentioning the options exchange.

Since I lack the gamblers spirit... I'm paper trading the OEX. (S&P 100 index)

My real trading, or rather... losing... of money is done with mutual funds.

Options exchanges (Big difference from selling options on stock...) are about the only place I have found that it makes sense to do any day trading. 1-3k and not much movement in the market each day beats working... but maybe not selling dope.

The options exchanges are fairly volatile, which is paramount for day trading. If the market has an equal number of sellers and buyers, you get flat days... and that does not happen very often with options. What gets me more often than not, is not knowing when to "go to cash." Some days are not worth trading. Big news, or no news... both suck to be on the wrong side.

The main attraction for me is the fact you can make money as the stocks are falling. Buying and selling a "Put."

Selling a put is the where the term, "Getting it put to you" comes from.

Caution: For the love of all things holy, do not trade options on a margin acount... and selling calls and puts can be dangerous to your hair. Particularly selling naked puts.

The problems that prevent me from moving this from hobby to profession, is that in order to pull it off you've got to be a real introvert! I hate being stuck behind a computer screen... particularly reading every shred of news that is coming down the pipeline. Then the amount of knowledge required to interpret the news takes a time to aquire. My ticker can't handle much when it comes to overnight risk.

My rules:
My rule, is to take profit when in doubt, sell ASAP when you see you are on the wrong side of the trade... be humble, cut losses and switch sides. Not being greedy wishing for one more point is the big big rule numbero uno. If you've got to wish it to be, the movement is slowing... get out.

Then... keep track of previous highs and lows. The big chunks get auto traded all the time... at support and resistance lines. Monday a block of 1.5 million went through...

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Originally posted by genaro:
Lots of people make a living through investment. Goes without saying. What was being said is that day trading is not wise, and that over time gains will be realistic.

On that note, I'm calling bullshit on the 50% claim. If it was reliably repeatable, everybody on wall street would be doubling his/her money every 18 months. Could you tell us what site that supposedly comes from? If they're a research firm they want people to look at their site.

Well it's not b.s. I've been using the company for some time- over a year- and every opening and closing they have ever had is in a pdf, some of the picks, like one in 5 bottom out to zero. Most of these go way up because they are undervalued stocks. Every month they pick two more and do a write up on the companies. Then they go through all their open picks and give an update on the company.

Do you know how many companies are out there in the universe? You think there aren't some that go through tumultous undervaluing due to various circumstances? The rediculous claim would be if I claimed to find these myself. A few years ago this company was recommended by Barron's and Forbes. And like I said...I'm not telling.

I tell friends that I know in real life...I do not announce on internet sites. You might be able to find it yourself anyway. The 50 percent claim is not a claim. Some increase by 30 and some by 100 percent. It's an average. About 1 in 5 are losers. The waiting time is up to 18 months...the ones that are failing they hold on to longer. But after around two years...they sell at a loss on those (on paper, the company does not trade these stocks).

Also, I guess RR is right. I'm not really talking about day trading if I'm holding on to them for two months or more.

And how the heck does anyone know who's doubling their money and who's not? People make money you know... like I said it may take 18 months. Thousands of people are using this company.

About the day trading: I was just browsing over some investment info and wound up doing a little math and figured I would get some feedback on my findings. So day trading is not essential. My only thing is that I want to get rich quik. So what do I do to get the highest monetary return while putting the least amount of effort into it? That was kind of a joke.

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so um...if you like to buy high and sell low...this isn't the deal for you

Just because thats how I play the slots doesnt mean thats how I would play the stocks. *(inside joke)*(inside joke)*

"After soo many failed get rich quick schemes, I know I'm gonna get rich with this scheme...and quik!!!"-Homer Simpson

One thing that I've seen, following "portfolio managers" that want you to autotrade in symphony with their portfolio... for a monthly fee:

They start with say, 10k at the beginning of the year. The first few months they take a lot of risks. After the 6 month mark their trading style changes, and by the last 4 they trend like crazy and tighten up the stop loss.

Half of 10k is 5k. 5k broken up into 500 dollar chunks means 10 trades. 10 winning trades over the last 4 months, and you beat the market averages, and have a real screaming portfolio.

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Lets say you set up a website, get auto-trade on commission... and charge 50 bucks a month per person. Each person that sticks around a year drops 600 bucks into your account. Get 50 people... 30k a year.

I am less than influenced by the market experts... if they are that good, why do they need to council others? Unless... the risks are to great for them to do it themselves, and having a check come each month is sweet enough for them.

Same goes for stock brokers... and people who give advice for free. (ME!)

...

While we're talking about hype... do you guys follow Jim Cramer? Take a week, watch his show... jot down what he hypes. See what happens to the price the next morning. Free money?

Rock....have we invested in one of these yet?

Just wondering...and trying to encourage. Really.

Rock, the site I belong to is 75 dollars for one year, actually two, the second one is free. I made that back pretty quick.

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if they are that good, why do they need to council others?

Yeah I am of the same opinion when it comes to brokers and analyst. Unless they have an obvious passion for economics, which many do, they fall into the category of teachers who teach because they cant do.

I had a stepfather once that was a Jewish broker from NYC with an apparent knack for economics and politics. He had everything that you would think it would take to make a great broker, but the guy never had any money. He lived in a crappy appartment and drove a crappy car. I never got a chance to go over any of his bank statements, so I am not sure as to if he wasnt making any money on Wall Street or if he was just incredibly cheap. But I digress.

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I had a stepfather once that was a Jewish broker from NYC with an apparent knack for economics and politics.

I would never use a broker to buy Jews. I would just use Craig's List.