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I'm interested in directly enrolling in a European university and being a degree seeking candidate (not going through a study abroad program and transferring credits back to the States).

I know that I'd need to take language classes wherever I went other than Britain, but learning another language is part of the attraction. I also think this would give me an advantage if I decided to go to grad school in history.

Anyone else done this?

Any idea how it compares to the typical college experience in the US? I'm in my 30's, so it's not like I'd have a typical life even if I stayed in America.

I was thinking about Germany or France, as their universities are quite inexpensive and either country would be fun to live in. I'm really open to anything.

Thanks

Especially in France or Germany, students enter the Universities with a higher level of education than in the US. They are generally not as good of Universities, but, they are still pleanty decent.

Things I've been keeping in mind while thinking about this myself: (Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.)

-In Germany, I belive, that it still costs only 750 Euro/Semester and living costs can be lower than in the US.

-Classes ivolve sitting through lecture and reading a book, if you want. They are less interactive; normally you wouldn't ask questions to your professor.

-The degree you earn in about 6 years is like a masters.

-American companies want American degrees. You may have more trouble finding work here if you do this.

-Study programs can be limited at certian Unis and its harder to change majors.

...good luck!

quote:

Originally posted by Brambles24601:
-American companies want American degrees. You may have more trouble finding work here if you do this.

I would be very surprised if this were true.

Employers might not like a foreign degree if English was not my native language or if it were from a lesser developed country. For an American, however, earning a degree at a European university in a foreign language shows the type of dedication and hard work that is a increasingly uncommon in university students here.

I'm aware that it is much harder to change majors in European universities, but I thought the equivalent of the Bachelor's took only 3 years and the Master's only 4. I would, of course, need to spend additional time taking language classes before I even started university. Coming up to speed in the language would take me a year or so, so I likely would not start my major program until 2008.

A great side listing different universities by region is braintrack.

I don't mean to be a party pooper, but I'm an English teacher and it takes a while to become adept enough at a language to follow university-level courses in it. Of course it depends on the language, how intensively you study it, and if you have prior knowledge of it...but I have students who have studied English for years who probably could not do university level work in it.

That said, there are people who do it. I met a Canadian or American who learned Slovene and was getting an MA in religious studies and Russian, of all things.

Also, there are most definitely programs in English.

Are you an Enlgish teacher in an English speaking country?

I think being immersed in the language will often trump years of study, or at least that's what I've been told.

From multiple sources, I've read that 8-10 months of intensive study (20 classes/week) in country is considered enough to pass the DSH in Germany.

I have also taught English in Chicago.

I apologize if you feel I'm being unfair or presumptuous. As I mentioned before, I don't mean to imply it's impossible to learn a lot in a year, but there are lots of factors involved. And of course I don't know your situation at all.

I'm still curious to hear from anyone who's attended university in another language - and certainly from you Fudd if you pursue this because it is an interesting opportunity.

No offense taken.

It is quite possible that I'll get in way over my head and flounder around helplessly. However, I know that I'll learn much more quickly by floundering than I will at my present comfortable pace.

I figure that if I start in April or May, I'll have well over a year until the 2008/2009 school year. Should I pass ahead of time, I can celebrate by travelling through Europe.

Although it does seem outrageous about the American companies not wanting to hire someone who has done extra work to function in a foreigen school, I have heard many people claim this to be true. It is harder to make connections with North American companies if you are in Europe. Obvbiously this DEFINATELY depends on what you are going into.

European degrees often take a shorter time to complete, if you work hard given you are fluent in the language. I don't know why I though 6 years. It will be quick to pick up understanding a language, but, properly formulating speech and texts is much harder and time consuming.

I will be in my 40's before I graduate university, so I will not be looking for a typical entry-level corporate job in the US.

If I decide to go back to school, it would likely be to get a graduate degree in history or economics so I could teach at the college level.

I also might do it just for the hell of it and continue what I was already doing for a living. Either way, I'm not too concerned about corporate employers.

I'd also guess that employers would look differently on a degree from France, Germany, or Spain than one from Russia, Argentina, or China. Not that they necessarily should, but that they would.

Well, ironically enough, I just began the application process to The Vienna University of Technology. You can't beat the price (700 Euro/semester), and they even offer pre-univeristy courses to help with langauge and other acedemic areas. I am worried though that I am partly doing this out of spite for all the Americans who've told me its a bad idea and all the Europeans who've told me Americans are stupid...
I am still also very interested in more people's experiences because I'm baising everything thing off of third or more hand info.

quote:

I am worried though that I am partly doing this out of spite for all the Americans who've told me its a bad idea and all the Europeans who've told me Americans are stupid...

That doesn't sound good! Go to the university you think is best for you, not best for your standing in the eyes of other people (whether stupid Americans or stupid Europeans).

Sounds like Vienna could be a great adventure. If that's really what you want for you, then go for it and don't look back.

quote:

From multiple sources, I've read that 8-10 months of intensive study (20 classes/week) in country is considered enough to pass the DSH in Germany.

As a native speaker, I'm frankly surprised at that. German is a notoriously difficult language to master because of the grammar. I haven't used written German for some time now, and the grammar catches me out. IMO French is a good deal easier.

Last time I checked (twenty years ago...) the Masters was the first degree in Germany and study time was typically five years. Also, entry requirements are strict. It would definitely get in touch with other overseas students and check out their experiences.

quote:

Originally posted by jv:
Go to the university you think is best for you, not best for your standing in the eyes of other people (whether stupid Americans or stupid Europeans).

Very true. I'm going to try for an adventure, something, something that will let me do what I want.

Btw. I have had German in school since I was 12, I have lived there for a year (with a German family) and I am completeing 600-level course work in it at the university and I am still not sure if I'm ready to go to univesity with my knoweledge. German is impossible to learn in that amount of time. Comprehension, is maybe obtainable, yet you still really need to be a language genious to learn German that fast.

As for universities that offer bachelors and masters level programs in English, there is Leiden University and Webster (both in Leiden, Netherlands.) There's also the Catholic University of Leuven in Belgium. Unless you're an EU citizen, however, you can expect to pay rates on par with those found in the US.

Um, #1 was right - American companies will generally turn up their noses at a European degree.

I spent two years at the University of Montpellier in France, enrolled directly. You generally need to pass a language proficiency exam before they will enroll you in integrated classes. Otherwise, you'll need to go through an exchange, or they'll shunt you into the foreign student area, where you'll take nothing but the equivalent of ESL/EFL classes.

quote:

I'd also guess that employers would look differently on a degree from France, Germany, or Spain than one from Russia, Argentina, or China. Not that they necessarily should, but that they would.

You'd guess wrong. There are US and Canadian degrees, degrees from the rest of the Anglo world, and everything else is furrin. Doesn't really matter if it's France or India, unless it's a doctorate.

quote:

Originally posted by Brambles24601:
Well, ironically enough, I just began the application process to The Vienna University of Technology. You can't beat the price (700 Euro/semester), and they even offer pre-univeristy courses to help with langauge and other acedemic areas. I am worried though that I am partly doing this out of spite for all the Americans who've told me its a bad idea and all the Europeans who've told me Americans are stupid...
I am still also very interested in more people's experiences because I'm baising everything thing off of third or more hand info.

Wanna bet you can beat that price? Scandinavia, around 75E per year in adminstration fees.

In 1996-98, I paid about $160/year studying in France, and the CAF paid half of my rent. (My undeclared roommate paid the other half.)

quote:

Originally posted by Felix:
Um, #1 was right - American companies will generally turn up their noses at a European degree.

This is debatable and depends to a large degree on one's choice of profession. Our company, like many others working in a global sector, actively seeks employees who have earned a degree abroad.

In this case, Fudd is interested in teaching after completing his degree. American universities generally have no issues with professors holding degrees from accredited foreign institutions, so this won't be an issue. Most associate said degrees with a degree of "worldliness" (despite the fact that one might just as easily cloister one's self in a Danish university for two years without ever seeing the rest of Europe).

American universities generally don't hire people without advanced degrees. I agree that a PhD in a certain field is more competitive, regardless of the university or country. Still, a generic liberal arts degree from a foreign university, without a high degree of specialty, is generally worthless in the US. I don't know whether Fudd is seeking a degree in literature, or a degree in molecular engineering from a EU university, but I assumed it was the former.

I'll stand behind my personal experience that a liberal arts degree from a French university is worth slightly less than fuck all in the States. If you don't want to believe me, don't.

quote:

Originally posted by Felix:
I don't know whether Fudd is seeking a degree in literature, or a degree in molecular engineering from a EU university, but I assumed it was the former.

If you read his posts you'd see that he is seeking a graduate program in history or economics. (Teaching being his eventual goal.)

Back to Fudd...

If you're looking at a history program, you've got a wide berth in Europe. The issue will be area of concentration, as it will determine what skills you might want to strengthen before applying. In any case, you might want to begin forging a cursory knowledge of written German. It will look good on your application and it will make things a helluva lot easier whether studying Assyriology, pre-Doric Greek pottery, or 18th century warfare.