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OK, I'm relatively new to creative writing if you don't count all the emailed stories and journal writing I've spent years of my life on. And I'm newer to the land of publishing and working with editors.

I recently got what I consider to be BAD feedback from an editor. He's just stating his own preference for reading material really, but it made me question my own sanity, the level of attachment to my work or ability to view it objectively, and I had to actually get some second opinions so that I knew I wasn't one of those authors who thinks they can do no wrong.

It's been so frustrating to even get the kind of feedback that I did, that it'd be a big relief to hear from other writers, published or non, who clearly received feedback, professional or otherwise, that really needed to be IGNORED and they shouldn't worry their pretty (or handsome) little heads over.

Mine? Well, the editor pretty much argued about the believability of one of my characters. Not in the sense that I didn't develop a well-rounded and "whole" person, but the editor questioned my character's thinking, beliefs vs. actions, and her having any contradictory behavior at all. He proceeded to advise that (all the while praising my actual writing ability) I stick to characters I have a familiarity with, people I actually know. And that's the fun bit. I wrote about a personality, along with actions, contradictions, struggles, etc. that I have met in many, many people in my life. So, when the editor questions the ability of a human like this to EXIST, I finally realize that even though I'm new to the biz, that some editors just can't be pleased or really haven't had enough life experience to know just what is possible in the world, people, and their actions.

Argh!!

jeez what a crock! hang in there Justine

Regarding writing characters you only have close experience with: there is a great essay that argues AGAINST the often heard dictum, 'write what you know' - in fact this author advocates doing the opposite! but says to write in a genre; where would science fiction be if authors only "write what they know"? Do great Mystery writers have to "know" killers or maybe be one?? The name and author of this essay escapes me right now, but I have it at home and can post if you are interested.

I dont have experience with professional fiction editors, at least not ones looking at MY work, but that has gotta be a tough place to get bad feedback from, esp since fiction is so subjective.

My experience is with editors of non-fiction giving BAD ADVICE or making STUPID EDITS! I write a lot about electronic/hiphop/turntablist music but for more general publications, so I am always struggling to convey "strange" technical and specialized info in a way that is accessible, doesnt make a mockery of the artforms, yet captures the spirit... Stupid editors I have known like to insert gratuitous "hip" slang into my pieces, misuse specialized vocabulary, or over-simplify things for the reader, but the resulting copy is just WRONG.

It irks me to no end.

One recent incident that that pops into mind was an out-of-the-loop boomer editor trying to title my article about a world champion scratch dj, "Hot Scratch Fever" ... apparently a play on "Cat Scratch Fever"/ he lives in Honolulu... I had to tell her that it was horribly lame and I'd be embarrassed to have my name next to a title like that. Luckily, they listened... or at least I think they did. Half the time I find out the hard way, reading their screw-ups in print, with my name on it!!

wow, sorry about the mini-rant, I guess I needed to speak on that.........

I once had a producer tell me that I needed to say that a guy had fallen into a CREVICE not a CREVASSE in a taped news intro because the 10 pm anchor had mispronounced it the night before. I was very angry becuase it was just plain wrong. She was so bull-headed that she still made me say it even after I asked, "how the hell do you fall into a crevice???"

It sounds like this editor may be like that Keep your head up and pick the advice you listen to carefully.

Court

Thanks, Mina! I need the support.

Yeah, his comments (I only offered a glimpse here) just brought to mind the whole concept of writing, the philosophy of creating something whether it's complete fiction or even a nonfiction tale. Isn't the whole idea of writing "creating" something, stretching our minds, being introduced to new concepts, thinking of new situations? And on the flip side, isn't everything we write based on some bit of experience since it came from our own minds?

THanks, again, Mina. Nonfiction is what naturally comes to my mind or interests me, but I've been dabbling in fiction for smaller projects while I'm working on my bigger nonfiction one.........so far, so good, until THIS guy.

I can only imagine how annoying it would be for an editor to add anything they consider "hip" or more reader-friendly or whatever then you know firsthand. Yikes.

I'm still laughing at Court's story.

Okay, like any profession, there are good editors and bad editors. Without knowing what Justine wrote, it's impossible to know why the editor responded the way he did. But I will say this...

Character believability is tricky. I not long ago wrote a reply to a BnA author about his piece. Said I liked it very much (I did) but had the feeling that fact was merging into fiction with regard to one of the characters. Had trouble believing that the character really existed. Seemed like a cliche'. Seen him in too many movies. Something like that.

The author replied that he knew that the character was ridiculous, but that it was spot on. He said he struggled with it because he knew he was describing a caricature....and even dialed it back some.

Point being, no matter how accurately you may be describing a character, you have to make it believable to the reader. As to Justine's case....of course people act in contradiction to their beliefs. Happens all the time. But you have to give the reader (and that editor, apparently) some idea why the character is behaving in such a way. Even if you just allude to it. And you may very well have, Justine. I'm just talking in general since nobody has read what you wrote.

Does that make any sense? Also, it's very possible that the editor is just a hack. And yes, definitely, you have to pick and choose what kind of feedback is valuable.

Travis

Really good advice......you're pointing out that, as writers, we can't just say "she exists." It's our job, built into the creative process, to make you believe she does without having any previous experience or added knowledge. Darn good point.

So, I can see my situation two ways. 1) As the author, I can try to work in the background info, in small details, to help show why the character is the way she is rather than just a "take it or leave it" philosophy. 2) Since the editor pretty much said "people like this don't exist, so write about someone who does," he's still a little quacky.

All part of the process, I'm finding......learning which feedback is good or merited AND where you may be leaving those little holes in your writing that you can't see on your own.

Thanks, Travis!

Justine
I think you've had some cracking advice here (and a great story from Court!). As someone who has been writing fiction more or less since I was a teenager, I know how frustrating it can be when someone 'misreads' your characters. The problem with fiction, as the old adage goes, is that there is so much personal taste in it.
Fiction editors are often after different things than the writer, or don't like it if the characters don't come within their own definition of what a character should be or is. If all fiction editors agreed, the world would probably have only one publishing house!
My advice is exactly the same as the others. Take on board criticism that you can see is valid. Ignore criticism that you don't think is. There is a way to test the editor's response. Show your work to someone else professional (for example, a writer who is making a living from it) who you know only slightly, and to a voracious reader, and get their responses. If they agree over certain points of criticism, then the chances are that you are getting something wrong. Where they disagree, it's more likely to be a subjective point of view.
I have found feedback of this kind is eight times more helpful than the opinion of one fiction editor who has an agenda.
I have had short stories published in the past (in a literary magazine and in an anthology of short stories), though my first novel is still waiting for a publisher - and my second is on its way. My literary agent is extremely helpful in such matters and she doesn't cost me a penny - she takes a cut when and if the book is published.
Critisicm is often hurtful, particularly if it seems brutal and you can't agree with it; believe me, I know! But subjectivity is so much a part of fiction that it is best to bear that in mind, as everyone else has said.

People have been writing about others misreading their characters, but I think it's also important to step back and ask yourself if there's a reason you're being criticized for something. Don't get stuck with the "I'm not crazy, everyone else is" syndrome of being frustrated that no one is liking or understanding something about your story. If it is just one bad critique out of three or four then don't worry about it, but be wary if everyone keeps mentioning the same problem.

You write for an audience, if they don't understand your characters then it doesn't matter if you do. Separate yourself from your personal attachment to the piece and try to figure out if there's any information that you have that the reader doesn't... could this be why the character makes more sense to you?

Not aiming this at anyone in particular, just a frame of mind I know I get trapped in regularly.

Very good point, markus, of course you must ask yourself constantly about your writing - which is why I, for one, who find it quite difficult once I'm emmeshed in a character to step back a pace or two once I'm through, like to have a second or third opinion about the character from someone who doesn't know me particularly well, before I start to ask myself how it can be 'improved'. This isn't just insecurity as far as I am concerned, even if your character is well-developed and so on, there are often improvements than can be made; it's not always a confirmation of what I suspected all along. My question to the readers is always straightforward as far as character is concerned: which character do you like or identify with best? Which character do you least like and why? Or maybe: do you think the main character/ characters carry the story and are sufficiently interesting/believeable in themselves. In other words, a lot of it has to do with the conviction of the main character. I find it is much easier to write minor characters than major ones, even when the major characters have almost written the book by themselves.
I hope Justine is reading this, because it can sometimes be difficult to step back from a character you have been so involved with even in a short story.

Justine's reading this. SHe loves new and additional perspectives.

Well this makes me want to read whatever it is that you wrote, because people generally are "contradictory" in their decisions, or - there is a perception that they are.

Sounds real life to me.
And that editor soudnds...dumb to me.

I have an MFA so I'm very used to getting feedback.

When an editor gives you that much feedback, well, they like yr story. Send more! Otherwise, you'd be getting a form letter.

I too write a story abt a wicked fight that I based on experiences between a boyfriend and I (I made it a tad more evil) that was prob our worst fight ever. Anyway, I included this fight by these two non-me and my boyfriend characters. And this kid who grew up in the midwest was like, "People don't act like that." And I was like, "I've seen fighs way worse in NYC." So I guess my life is a work of fiction.