BootsnAll Travel Community

This is a little bit out of the blue. I read all these efforts to publish paid stories and make a name as a travel writer and I wonder. I live in Boston, which is next to New York one of the best places to publish something. So many students trying to write, so many places trying to publish. So here is my idea:

yes, many people write an article, submit it, and then pray for the best. And on the other side there are many impersonal travel books that tell you prices and main attractions. Yet there is nothign in the middle. I do not argue that books such as Go and Lonely Plantet are great travel resourses, but they do not offer insight. They are references, yet many people I know rely on these to choose their destinations. I have recently found a travel book that relates with humor the story of one man traveling and HIS personal experiences. He said what to watch out for and what he loved and WHY.

This led me to think, what if all stories can be combined? Of course, very few people have the option of traveling to all countries and exploring each one, but as a combination of many people, the continent has been covered pretty well. It could be something along the lines of Chicken Soup for the Traveler. A collection of many essays, stories, pictures, diaries, reflections, and advices in a one big bind. It would provide an insight view to potential travelers and guide them to make choices after an opinion of someone who has been there.

This pitch seems original, because no matter how many book stores i have covered so far, not one offered anything of this sort. So if you or your friends have a story, maybe everyone could pitch together and edit it and then publish. Everyone would get their share and some publicity. Then if the story would appeal to someone who reads the book, the name of the author would already gain credibility.

So if this idea does not seem completely crazy, please respond with comments and critizism and if I believe enough people want to do this, then why not!?!

Hi AngelGrl,
Actually, your idea is great, but it sounds like BNA. Isn't that exactly what we have here? I've never seen anything like it in book form. Good thinkin'
Jet

It is much like BNA, just a different style. I mean if certain travel guides offer all their resourses on the net, why buy the book?
It yours!
More convenient.
A computer isn't exactly the travelers best friend, especialy with the internet.
BNA is a blog, this way the author's name is there forever.
The authors get paid.
You are not going to show your friends a website with your screen name, but a book.
Reaches those who do not sit on this website for hours....(like me)

And the internet isn't around to entertain you sitting in a doctor's office, on a train, in the middle of nowhere.....



If it's in book form, someone will buy it. THe trick is to do the research and see if ENOUGH people will.

I'd be willing to submit something to a book like that. But what do you want to do exactly? A book that has a bunch of random travel stories from all over the world, or more specific continent/region/country guides? The former has the advantage that everyone could submit and it would be easier to find enough stories, but it wouldn't really help people who are planning to go to a specific destination like guidebooks do. And the latter could be really interesting, but would be a lot harder to accomplish.

Angel, it also sounds like BIG project with no boundaries. HOw would you limit the contents...divide up the stories by region or select the best ones to sum up the world? Would you offer a variety of opinions based on one location or offer one for each?

Based on the fact that this would be a relatively original idea, I think there would be a wide range of audiences willing to buy this. Because it would target not just the rich travelers, or the backpackers, but the whole package. Anything of this sort reminds me of Chicken soup for the soul and look at how many copies that sold!

As to the organization of the context, this is how it will go. I am currently only in the planning stage, but I have nothing to work on - yet. Depending on the submitted stories, I will decide whether to seperate it into continets, or only write about one continet, which seems to be Europe. If it is about all the continets, then it will target a bigger audience, but the book would turn out to be around 2-3 thousand pages. Not realy the pocket size I'm aiming for. So the final desision would be this, based on how many stories I will recieve, I will pick the continet that is most popular and focus on that. So under the assumption that it would be either Europe or Asia, I think I could get enough stories, if people cooperate. Then it would be devided into countries, just because it seems more logical. Rather than reading a story about a gondola in Venice, and then a bullfight. After that, I will devide it into categories. Not cities. Because then most people would read about the major cities and close the book. This would defy the whole point. The idea of this is to make people see beyond the beaten path and incorporate from all over. So the categories are something that would range depending on stories. I'm thinking something like - work abroad - people - places - study - odds and ends - memorable adventures - sad incidents - advice - and etc. These realy depend on what I collect.

Then all the stories that I recieve will be put under a category. Good and Bad, Sad and Happy. Trying to not be bias toward a place. This would make the reading less monotone, because it's not just random stories. But rather if a person is looking specifiacly to go someplace, they would truly be interested in feedback.

So the last of this looong post. What am I looking for? ANYTHING. funny stories, sad stories, unforgetable people, pictures, advice, random thoughts about a place, beauties off the beaten track, letters, diary entries, culture, interesing things....

I mean EVERYONE has a story. You do not come back from a place and when someone asks you how was it reply "I dont know" You say something. And this somehing is what I want, right from the heart.

Again, plz tell me if you think this is a crazy idea. I do not mind the workload, so do not worry. And if you have a story, or a friend who has one, or any ideas, please tell me!

the idea sounds quite good. something like a travel collage: stories and articles about the continent. travel brochures are too glossy. guides are too extensive. so it would be nice to take this idea forward...

Not exactly an original idea.

Nobody wants to buy this stuff.

If Travelers Tales isn't exactly getting rich off of this, (even though they have actual distribution and professionals with many years of experience) then we are not going to make it either, unless it is just though a pre-paid 'vanity press', and hope that our elderly Aunt buys a copy or two while the rest sit, unread, in our garages until they mildew.

Writing interesting travel stories is the easiest part. Putting together a book isn't even that difficult: selling it is damn near impossible.

Sorry to be a wet blanket.

It's ok Joe. I agree, sadly. I love Traveles Tales, but I also know they struggle to survive. Has anyone read Brad Newshams essay on being a travel writer? It's a bit sobering. Brad is the author of "Take Me With You" as well as the creator of Backpack Nation. Maybe we should work on ways to get travel into the public eye a bit more so there is a market for these kinds of books. Just throwin' that out there. . .
Jet

I am very happy with how this could actualy work. Let me assure you, the only big problem is getting enough people to write these things. I have a little secret.

Selling it will not be that impossible. The thing is I am good friends with a publisher, or rather my family is. She is based in Boston, which is where I live. Before I made this post, I asked her if she thought it could be possible to sell this to a publisher and distribute it.

She basicaly guaranteed me to publish it. Yea, I got kind of lucky there considering she nor me have seen the final project yet. And the thing is if the book goes into publishing, its easy from there.

I figured it targets only a certain traveler audience, so marketing it would be much easier. And her statement about this is that most travel books are stories. This is going to be about 60% stories, plus picture and other personal experiences. The difference is that it is more personal, yet more broad.

Most books offer an insight, yet are just interesting passages. This one is targeted at helping to select a place, or to avoid one. I mean if you read a story about someone running away from a dog in France it might be amuzing, but not helpfull, there are dogs everywhere. Im looking for more specific things, such as advices on why you should not sleep in a park in Spain, or why hitting on an Italian girl with her father watching is not a good idea.

Theres a catch to everything. And besides, there are many writers trying to publish independently. Some succed, some do not. They may be proffesionals, yet amature mistakes are the funniest and the most helpful. This is why anyone could write the stories. I mean, yes it might take an hour to type the story. But even if the book idea fails, so what? You loose nothing! An hour of your time, but you get to relive that moment again. I mean there is no risk. Why not try it??

I'll throw another wet blanket on the pile...

Very few writers with any professional experience would contribute to this at this stage. Basically you admit that you don't really have a solid plan yet, you may or not be able to pay, and you don't really know much about the publishing world. The argument about whether to write for free or not has been hashed and re-hashed over and over again in writing circles. The vast majority of writers I've encountered are unlikely to deal with a project if it doesn't seem like it has a solid foundation or the editors are waffling on pay.

Yes, you could tap the non-pro writers market, but the problem there is that the quality of submissions will be a lot lower making your book less likely to make money.

I haven't given enough thought to your idea to say whethere I think it's worthwhile or not but if you think you have something then you should definitely go ahead with it! My advice though, would be to do a lot more research before asking other people to join in. What I'm reading in this post is basically "I have a neat idea that I haven't thought about too much, anyone want to jump in and help me figure it out?"

Unfortunately, you need to lay the groundwork for a project like this. If the idea is good then you won't need many examples to back it up to a publisher and it sounds like you've already got one on your side.

There's plenty of free info available online regarding pitching a book idea or attracting an agent.

I would suggest the following plan:

- Work out a very clear idea of what your book will be. You'll need to be able to write a one or two sentence synopsis of if that gets the idea across and (this is important) makes people want to read your book! People of talent are more likely to contribute if they're excited about reading the finished product.
- Approach a few close friends for travel stories and come up with some examples to help sell your idea to a publisher.
- Research the pros and cons to having an agent for your idea, then find one, or proceed directly to finding a publisher
- One you've sold the book to a publisher then you can begin a formal call for submissions. ( See Example)

Appologies if this sounds harsh, but the publishing world is not an overly friendly place. Write to Jen Leo ( jenleo.com) for advice and think about a partnership with BnA as far as finding stories.

quote:

Actually, your idea is great, but it sounds like BNA. Isn't that exactly what we have here? I've never seen anything like it in book form. Good thinkin'

Once you have a publisher behind you then you could approach BnA about working together to get stories for your project. They email authors asking for permission, you give them some kind of plug in the book, etc, etc.


Again, sorry if this isn't what you wanted to hear of if I'm just being an ass and you already know all of this. Making money in the writing world is hard and just because you haven't heard of a book idea doesn't mean it hasn't already been tried and failed a dozen times already.

If this is what you want to do then I say go for it! Just make sure you give it the attention it deserves.

I apreciate the pessemistic help. I do admit that I do not know much about the publishing world. And realy, this is just the idea out of the blue. But I'm not asking anyone to jump to their computers and start typing the stories. This is what I call background research. I refuse to submit anything to any publisher or agent until I know to my best knowledge that I could produce something in the end.

I'm not saying "give me the stories and sit and wait for an answer". I'm saying " I want to know if anyone is interested in this".

If the answer that no one is interested, then case closed. If there are enough people who care, I will start the basis and then pitch the story. I know a publisher is not going to care much if one of a million writers do not respond after they got approved, but my personality does not allow me to start anything without knowing I can.

As for the travel stories, I'm originaly from eastern Europe and I have tons of friends who cover the continent and are willing to give me something to work with. This is where I got the idea.

So thank you for the critisizm, but this is only the beggining. I can probably pull of publishing a book just from what the people I personaly know say, but that does not give a dynamic perspective that I want. So thank you for the advice that you did give, but please don't jump to the conlusion that I'm already in the process of publishing.

Angel, how about the marketing end of things? Does your friend guarantee the company will seriously try to market what you've pieced together? From my own research, that seems to be the biggest problem with publishing these days. Just breaking print doesn't mean you'll make a dime or the book won't go out of print as soon is comes about or if it'll even make it to major bookstores with more than one copy.

I'm not trying to dissuade you in any way, just curious about the other end of your plan. Your projects very interesting. I'll be the last one to discourage anyone with any kind of creative idea from actually pursuing it. We can't learn all the ins and outs till we take the risks and go after something we want.

I think you could get a lot of folks to submit. We've all chosen to submit to non-paying markets for one reason or another and a non-paying printed byline is a lot better than a non-paying web one, at least as far as getting credit from future markets for your experience. You could possibly set up contracts as well that would provide royalties to the contributors if this thing ends up taking off. Bios in the back of the book would also be a great addition, for the readers and the authors. I know I usually love to read the tiny paragraphs about the people who have an entry in an anthology I read, especially those whose writing I find interesting, just as much as I like the entires themselves.

Keep plugging away at the idea.

quote:

Originally posted by AngelGrl22488:
So the last of this looong post. What am I looking for? ANYTHING. funny stories, sad stories, unforgetable people, pictures, advice, random thoughts about a place, beauties off the beaten track, letters, diary entries, culture, interesing things....

I mean EVERYONE has a story. You do not come back from a place and when someone asks you how was it reply "I dont know" You say something. And this somehing is what I want, right from the heart.

Again, plz tell me if you think this is a crazy idea. I do not mind the workload, so do not worry. And if you have a story, or a friend who has one, or any ideas, please tell me!

I guess it was this that led me to believe that you were looking for people to submit stories to you already. I realize fully that you're not in the process of publishing and that's where I saw the problem. I saw it as unprofessional and irresponsible to collect people's submissions if you had no real prospects for taking the project to the next level.

Asking for feedback and ideas is another matter entirely. My fault, I should have read more carefully.

I agree with Justine that you should keep plugging away.

Ok, to anyone who even reads this, and especialy to markus, who seems to have some kind of hidden resentment towards me, I have a more refined opinion of the things I'm going to work on.

I've scouted Amazon,B&N, Borders, local libraries, and small book shops around where I live for competition and got my hands on as many books as I could that aim at the same thing. I found a decent amount, but very small compared to what I thought was out there. Then I've sat down and read 90% of the books. While reading, I took very tedious, and very very critical notes on what I read. I found many reasons as to why many of these books are dusting on the shelves and refined my search to try to exclude these things and include the good stuff. Main reasons were
1. The stories are just plain boring and pointless, there is actualy one on some guy who lies in his bed and stares at the cieling while he talks about the ugly landscape outside. He never moves.
2. It is a mesh of stories from all over and on random topics. You have no idea who is talking or his ideas/background or where he is. Takes a while to sink in.
3. Some strongly focus on the morals in every story. While virtues may appeal to many people, they do not sell well. Cynical, mean, bitter, disapointed people write the best stories.
4. And then I realized, the few books that do make it
a. are written by adventurers who dare do things and then 99% of the time loose the gamble. Then tell the tale as a warning.
b. do not describe the area and setting in a tedious manner for 5 pages. A few sentences will do just fine.
c. are not written by snobby people who dare not sit on a public toilet.
d. have a lesson to be learned through bruises, headaches, stress, and disapointment
e. are easty to read and follow.
f. have pictures and random quotes
g. have passion behind the story about life, not a dried up man talking about some Pope.

So you get the idea. And I do not mean to discourage any happy stories, but they have to have a point and humor and not be just like "la la la, I am happy"

First of all, let me say good for you for having a project that you seem to believe in. Go for it and don't let anyone get you down.

Now let me try and get you down.

I'm really not following your idea very well. It seems to be all over the place. Your most recent post that was designed (I guess) to clear up your position has left me even more confused. You don't want depressing stories like "a dried up man talking about some Pope" nor do you want "la la la, I am happy" type stories. You want adventurous souls who aren't afraid of a public toilet seat, but they must also be a bitter cynic since those are the sort that write well.

Your loose guidelines seems focused on attracting very amateur writing. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but just needs to be recognized for what it is and understand that will make it much harder to sell publicly. I think your "market research" has eliminated writers such as Tim Cahill, Paul Theroux and Bill Bryson.

Paul Theroux? He's included...Angel mentioned cynical, bitter, etc. people/writing sells well. I'm a big fan of him myself, by the way.

Angel, you're setting a good example for all the research and consideration inolved in a book or publishing project. I'm taking notes! With that much dedication to your idea/dream, you're guaranteed to make something of it.

And if you're feeling attacked, ignore those folks. It seems you're sharing an idea early in the process and that's frightening some folks. I see it as you trying to broaden your own perspective, gather ideas, etc. THe feedback you're getting from the forum is probably just what you need to keep fine tuning your project.

Keep updating us! If nothing else, you're helping me realize what goes into the publication process (or should).

Justine reminds me of something I meant to mention. I don't think anyone is trying to attack you Angel. I think some of us are just providing an extremely mild version of the sort of questions you can expect when you go to a publisher. If you can refine and defend your ideas against us, you'll be that much better off against a publisher.

I'm sorry if I'm confusing anyone with all the stuff that I'm posting. I know that some of it is contradictory. To not confuse anyone, if anything contradicts an earlier post, please disregard the earlier stuff. If you think what I'm posting is confusing, try being inside my head.

From all the response I'm getting around the place, the whole project is shifting all the time. A few things that may confuse people, this is trying to clear it up:

Step 1: Big undefinded idea of just many stories put together in print.
Step 2: Realizing that may not sell.
Step 3: Finding out the competition. Reading the competition.
Step 4: Reading the notes I took on the competiton, that may together be enought for a book themselves.
Step 5: Realizing that happy stories may not sell, unless they are realy speacial in their content.
Step 6: Sitting down with a college proffesor and discussing all the things I've gathered.
Step 7: Him laughing in my face. And then he gave me some good pointers.
Step 8: Summary of the things he told me: The funniest things are from people who have learned something from experience, but were open-minded enough to laugh at themselves.
Step 9: Telling everyone about my newly refined idea. (and it's not just taking the advice from the proffesor, also a lot of stuff that people told me, so feedback helps?)
Step 10: (currently on it) Searching high and low for all kinds of publishers. So far I see that some want the manuscript (which I do not have) and some only want an outline (so that they may scan over it quickly and throw it out faster). And I'm finding the ones that only need an outline.
Step 11: (next 2 weeks) putting together an outline.


Stay tuned. and post comments, they help.