Hey all,

First time poster, currently planning a 2 month (or more?) trip to Europe starting in mid/late September. I was last there when I was 11, and remember bits and pieces of Paris, London, and Stonehenge. I have a perfect window of time to travel (although not a perfect wallet), and I definitely want to make the most of it.

My itinerary is basically to fly from New York to Ireland, explore the country for a few days, make my way to Scotland, down to London and start my rail tour from there. The rest is fairly open ended, but it basically looks like this:

London
Brussels
Amsterdam
possibly northern Germany (Hamburg - Berlin)
Copenhagen
Norway (Bergen looks incredible, as does the entire west coast)
Sweden
or put Germany here
Prague/more Czech R. (noticed the raves on these forums)
Vienna
Croatia (also some raves here)
Italy
Switzerland
Nice
Paris
fly back

As you can see, I haven't included a timeline or many specific cities, but I'm purposefully leaving this trip open ended. I plan on getting a Eurail pass (flexi style, 15 days of travel in 2 months) and moving at my own pace. Am I biting off more than I can chew? I can't see everything, but I want to see and do as much as possible.

I also left out 2 amazing countries - Greece and Spain. What do you think is the easiest/most efficient way to put these countries into the itinerary? This mostly applies to Greece, as I could just go from France to Spain and fly home from there.

The purpose of this trip is to get out of the states, out of my comfort zone, and head out on my own walkabout. I'm interested to know what you think is must-see material and what is skip-worthy, what's amazing and what's just average. I've based the itinerary off of Eurail's 20 country list, so I may be missing a few great spots. At this point I'm looking to get more specific, because putting "Italy" on the list could keep me there for a year. I also haven't ruled out flights, as many people recommend them for their speed and ease.

I'm interested in anything unique these countries have to offer, whether it be culture, nature, music (guitarist here), food/drink, art, architecture, historic sites, etc... the list could go on and on, but I don't want too many limitations.

I appreciate your help!

You could fit Greece in between Croatia and Italy. Depending on the time of year, I know there are tons of ferries available.

Although I've never been - I hear from everyone that Turkey and Poland are beautiful countries with much to offer for not as much money. They are both on my personal list of must-see places.

Have fun!

I'd love to see some of Poland as well. I think there are some ancestors there.

I'm saving Turkey for the next trip, although I hear it's incredible.

If you do decide to take flights instead of all overland travel - Greece may be the place to fly to. It's just way down there and hard to get to, but certainly worth it.

However, I would do some research - things may be kind of lonely there after August.

If you want to save a bit of money, or a lot, leave out switzerland and replace it with Bosnia. Bosnia, in my experience, is a marvelous place, easy to travel in, and not expensive. Croatia? Well, lets just say the hospitality of the people leave me cold. Bosnia on the other hand, especially Mostar, is a gem of a city and the people are wonderful.

If you're in the Vienna/Croatia area, you must add Budapest to your list. It's a great city!

Also, know that prices are much more expensive in Scandinavia. It's not uncommon to spend more than $50 a night in a hostel in Norway. Beautiful area though.

Well, you're leaving off more than 2 amazing countries. But that's not the point. I'll give you the same advice I give most first timers. You're trying to see everything in one trip.

1. Think of it as a first trip, not an only trip.

2. Pick 2 or 3 countries, and focus on them. (I find no country can be seen in under 2 weeks, few in under 3, and many have a minimum commitment of a month to see much of them at all. I'd try to keep them close together, and travel overland between them but you can stitch them together with flights if you must. If you're sticking with the eurail pass, cutting down on countries also cuts down on cost.

3. Go somewhere you've never heard of. Or at least somewhere you don't often hear of people traveling to. In Europe, the big cities are full of very famous sights, famous scenes, but it's the smaller places that I remember with fondness. Which is odd, 'cause I generally hate being in small towns on this side of the Atlantic.

4. Consider budget in picking your countries of interest. I'm sure Norway's great. I really, really, really want to go there sometime. But going somewhere, and then having your whole budget eaten up by a dorm bed and a couple of basic meals just isn't that much fun. Most of your list lines up with the most expensive countries in Europe. If you don't have the perfect wallet, consider spending more time further east.

5. Reconsider the value of a rail pass. If you do stick to your plan, it will undoubtedly be a good deal, but if you cut down on countries, it may or may not be. The usual rule with rail passes is that they offer good value on long distance trains in northwestern Europe (France, Germany, Benelux, Switzerland, Ireland, Scandinavia, and the UK - though that requires its own pass). Short trips with a flexipass are probably not good value, and trains are pretty cheap in southern and eastern Europe, so it's also unlikely to get good value there.

6. Have fun.


To a few of your specific issues:
Flights
I'm not a big fan of flying in the middle of a trip. There's a few reasons. Flying's a hassle, for sure. Even short flights take up most of a day, and once you factor in all the costs of airport transport, airport meals, taxes, checkin fee, baggage fee, that inflight bottle of water you weren't planning on buying but ended up really needing a drink ... they're not really as cheap as they first appear.

But the big reason is tying you down to specific dates. Trips with flexibility are more fun and less stressful. Booking a flight means you have to be in a specific city at a specific time. Most times I've done this, I've ended up regretting it.

Must Sees
I haven't been to all the countries on your list, but here's some thoughts.

- Ireland - The Aran Islands. Frickin' awesome. I recommend dinner at the Mainister Hostel on Inis Mor. Connemara is really beautiful. One of my regrets was not going hiking in the 12 bens.

- London - London's just fun. Conveniently, it's the cheapest airport in Europe for me, so I've been 4 times (well, 7 if you include stops on arrival and departure). The Tower is probably the biggest must-see. I really liked the Transport Museum as well. Most of the museums in London are free (unfortunately, not the Transport museum), so if you're walking by, it doesn't hurt to pop in. I've only been to a couple. Take a walking tour. Actually try to do that lots of places. Walking tours are the best way to get introduced to a city. I've also heard good things about Jack the Ripper tours...that's up for next time. Set some time aside to just wander the city...I'm sure there's some bad parts of town, but I've yet to encounter them, in my random efforts. I found the Royal Naval Observatory interesting, but not everyone will share my interest. It's mostly a museum about the search for longitude.

- Paris - The catacombs are pretty cool, if you're not overly creeped out by large piles of bones. The Louvre is good, just stay as far from the Mona Lisa as possible, and check out some of the older parts of the castle in the basement. Napoleon III's chambers are also interesting. If you're into art, the Musee D'Orsay is better. Y'know...I spent a week there less than 2 years ago, and can't for the life of me remember what all I did.

Missable

Mostly, I find there's a lot of big tourist draws that are so-so at best, and the crowds make them unbearable. Versailles is at the top of that list. I'd skip Nice entirely...it's a nice enough town, but there's not much there...if you stick to your plan, I'd replace is with somewhere inland France, and try to get off the tourist trail. As aluded above, don't bother with the Mona Lisa. It's nothing you haven't seen before, only this time with bulletproof glass and a large throng who can't quite understand "no flash". Don't spend a whole bunch of money to take a ferris wheel ride. It might offer a good view, but there's no justification for the London Eye's prices. Actually, usually if the entrance fee alone is more than $20, you should seriously consider whether it's worth it.

That's all I can think of now.

edit: - Just thinking about the crowds and their damn flash pictures. If you don't know how to turn your camera's flash off, please learn before you go.

all great advice, thanks guys.

I remember seeing the Mona Lisa as a child and thinking "this is it?" My thoughts might be along the same lines if I went again.

I also just discovered the NYTimes Frugal Traveler is on a similar trek (a "grand tour"), so I've been taking a few ideas from that blog.

I just wanted to chime in on the missable.

Versailles is eminently miss-able unless you like period furniture. The drawing room of Napoleon was the best room there, the rest, some impressive furniture and a genius ballroom.

The Gardens of Versailles, on the other hand, can be accessed with a smaller fee, is less crowded, and were interesting even in winter. In summer it must be glorious.

There are two ways to get to Versailles. A train ride that leads to a half kilometer walk, and a public bus that lets you off right by there. The bus, I've found, takes an eternity, at least a half hour longer than necessary.

One "Never miss" item near Paris and a full day trip, one that could replace Versailles on a short tour, is the Gardens of Giverny, designed by Money. They fascinat3ed me for hours, they were so perfectly designed. It was exhilarating to be in part of Monets little self defined paradise.

im doing my fisrt solo multi counrty tour 2009
departing NYC to London a few day and France Portugal Spain (daytrip to Moracco) a few day in the south of France, Italy, ferry to Greece, Turkey, back to italy from there work my way up to the Neherlands, this what i always wanted to do now that i cant work anymore its time to travel i want to do this all by rail/ferrys, and take my time doing it, departing in late Aug. 2009,

looking for anyone that wants to join me

peace Matt

Though I agree on the cut down on your countries bit, there's one piece of advice I haven't read. You're traveling in September, so it will be time for a change of seasons. I don't know how picky you are about the weather, but while early September can still be really beautiful up North, October is cruddy and muddy. However I have heard that October is gorgeous in Greece and other places further south. So. Follow the turning leaves from North to South and you will see beautiful things!

I think you should go Croatia - Greece - Italy. In my opinion, it is sometimes cheaper. You might also want to consider the weather conditions for the time of year in which you are traveling.

looks like a good itinerary

you will be glad you are doing it alone

alone travel is the best travel

other people really just seem to get in your way of what YOU want to do

travel really should only be about YOU

Agree with 2wanderers about not seeing too much.

I would forget about adding in extra countries like Greece/Spain unless you take something out. On the initial list you have 14 countries, in 2 months. By my math that is just 4 days per country, and that 4 days includes travel time. I have done this type of speed-trip myself so it is possible, but the downside is that you will only see a small amount in each country.

There are so many great destinations in Europe, so it's hard to advise which ones to pick. I particularly like the Meditteranean parts of Europe. But all your initital choices look fine.

Have you thought of having a theme for your trip ?

You could "collect" castles, cheeses, soccer teams, breweries, quiz shows, etc.

The one thing that fascinates and frustrates me about Europe is the way that you can travel 250 miles in any direction and things are mostly the same, but some random everyday thing no longer works the way you'd expect.

It's a bit like "Sliders" - maybe the language now uses um instead of un - the shops now close for two hours in the afternoon - the coffee is 50% sugar - you get hot water from the faucet labelled 'C'...

Pick a couple of things and hunt them down in each country - the motto of the European Union is "United by Diversity" and bend over backwards to preserve as many quirks as possible.

I hope you have a great trip, it's a brilliant place to live.