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Got any practical advice on this situation of mine?

Jester

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  • Added on: December 8th, 2010
First - it's your life, do what makes you happy.

Second-
I've been out of school for 2 years now and I can keep up just fine with my friends who are taking physics and calculus.

It's not about intelligence. It's about having that piece of paper on the wall.

busman7

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  • Added on: December 8th, 2010
Jester wrote:First - it's your life, do what makes you happy.

Second-
I've been out of school for 2 years now and I can keep up just fine with my friends who are taking physics and calculus.

It's not about intelligence. It's about having that piece of paper on the wall.



However if one has intelligence they can manage just fine without the piece of paper on the vanity wall + they can be bought for a couple hundred bucks anyway! :lol:
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Jester

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  • Added on: December 8th, 2010
However if one has intelligence they can manage just fine without the piece of paper on the vanity wall + they can be bought for a couple hundred bucks anyway!

Certainly one can manage. My father in law owns a very successful business and is one of the most intelligent people I've ever met. I think he dropped out after 8th grade. I'm fairly confident he could have every last penny he owns taken from him, and in five years he'd have it back.

But if you are not my father in law - if you can't, say, calculate the profit margin you'll make in your head as you're quoting a price to a customer - then you're doing yourself a disservice by refusing to get an education.

The job world he's facing isn't the same one you did. Boomers got fairly high-ranking positions more or less because they needed a body to fill the seat and there was nobody older to fill the role. My father was controller of a large company at a very young age. Don't get me wrong - he's a hard worker and was smart enough to do the job - but the most important thing he had going for him was the opportunity to be given the job. Now he's a top executive in a public company. One of his lieutenants is a guy, roughly the same age, who worked his way up from the mail room. Think he has his high school diploma. That doesn't happen nowadays, at least not regularly. I'm years away from being in a position to take on something akin to a controller position, and it's not because I have any less experience, or don't work hard - it's because the boomers at the top of the company aren't going anywhere. There are simply not enough available jobs beyond a certain level. This is why I'm scratching and clawing with hundreds of other people whenever someone (finally) leaves and opens up a position. Every single person in my department has at least one degree. The majority of them have a professional designation or are working towards one. If DavidAM were to show up and apply against us he wouldn't get a second glance. Is that right? I don't know. I personally spend every single night doing homework, and most weekends as well. I'd argue that this sends a clearer signal to a prospective boss that he or she will get an intelligent, hard working employee, than someone whocouldn't be bothered to spend four years doing an undergrad. It's just the way the world works.

busman7

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  • Added on: December 8th, 2010
And then there are people on the welfare rolls with that fancy piece of paper on the wall that can't even get a job at Mickey D's because they are "overqualified"! :(
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DavidAM

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  • Added on: December 8th, 2010
I really do appreciate all the different view points. I tend to be a pretty resolute guy. I try and justify everything and so I'm not taking any of this lightly. I enjoy all the perspective as it broadens my own mind.
"Change is the essence of life. Be willing to surrender what you are for what you could become."

“A burning passion coupled with absolute detachment is the key to all success.”

Sea of Derailments - http://davidamis.wordpress.com

2wanderers

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  • Added on: December 9th, 2010
busman7 wrote:And then there are people on the welfare rolls with that fancy piece of paper on the wall that can't even get a job at Mickey D's because they are "overqualified"! :(
I love it when people who haven't gone job hunting in decades spout cliches about a job market they have no experience with.

busman7

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  • Added on: December 9th, 2010
2wanderers wrote:
busman7 wrote:And then there are people on the welfare rolls with that fancy piece of paper on the wall that can't even get a job at Mickey D's because they are "overqualified"! :(
I love it when people who haven't gone job hunting in decades spout cliches about a job market they have no experience with.



Correct I haven't been job hunting in years as I ran my own business for 30+ yrs which included hiring employees, 'nough said. :bow:
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KathrynD

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  • Added on: December 9th, 2010
Have you looked into whether Whole Foods offers leaves of absences? Some companies will give you a leave of absence up to 6 months or a year for personal reasons.

That's what I did when I was in a previous job. I was planning on quitting to travel, but my boss suggested I ask for a leave. Since he liked me, he recommended I get it and I got it approved. It was nice being able to travel and knowing that I had a job when I got back home.

My leave was "personal" but my excuse was that my travels would be an educational opportunity. If they like you alot, they may be willing to grant it. Then you don't have to choose between a job and travel.

DavidAM

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  • Added on: December 10th, 2010
The only thing about a leave of absence is that I would have to have worked for years to accrue enough time to take off. I was told that there was a lady who worked for 17 years with Whole Foods and recently took a year off to travel. I'm sorry but that's not what I want for myself. And I'm still new. I know a lot of the people seem to like me and I haven't gotten in any trouble yet, and everyone is pushing me to move up in the company but I can't see myself working there for years. I would rather work around the world, moving periodically from place to place, soaking in the culture. The way I see it. This is my first stop, Hawaii will be my second, and who knows from there. Maybe I'll fly back to Portland and live there for a bit. Security doesn't phase me or make me feel any better about living life. I could still die tomorrow and I wouldn't have done anything but work.
"Change is the essence of life. Be willing to surrender what you are for what you could become."

“A burning passion coupled with absolute detachment is the key to all success.”

Sea of Derailments - http://davidamis.wordpress.com

halfnine

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  • Added on: December 10th, 2010
2wanderers wrote:I love it when people who haven't gone job hunting in decades spout cliches about a job market they have no experience with.


Actually, my favourite is when people who have never worked in the country in question spout off about the job market or value of degrees, etc. :)

busman7

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  • Added on: December 10th, 2010
halfnine wrote:
2wanderers wrote:I love it when people who haven't gone job hunting in decades spout cliches about a job market they have no experience with.


Actually, my favourite is when people who have never worked in the country in question spout off about the job market or value of degrees, etc. :)



Well my favorite is when salary slaves spout off about the qualifications of people who have had the initiative to beat the system! :cup:
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2wanderers

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  • Added on: December 10th, 2010
halfnine wrote:
2wanderers wrote:I love it when people who haven't gone job hunting in decades spout cliches about a job market they have no experience with.

Actually, my favourite is when people who have never worked in the country in question spout off about the job market or value of degrees, etc. :)
I don't think the differences in labour markets between the US and Canada are any greater than the differences between, say, New York and Arizona. My home market undoubtedly has more in common with Austin than it does with Winnipeg.

Correct I haven't been job hunting in years as I ran my own business for 30+ yrs which included hiring employees, 'nough said.
I am aware of that. Given what your business was, I'm guessing that career progression opportunities were limited for your employees. Which is pretty much what we're saying will happen without some form of further education.

As I said before (maybe you missed it), if you have the entrepreneur personality, you'll likely do fine without an education. But in the modern world, not having a piece of paper on your wall is a huge block against moving up in the wage-earning ranks. And not everyone's cut out for starting a business, so if you're not, education becomes quite important.

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  • Added on: December 10th, 2010
if you have the entrepreneur personality, you'll likely do fine without an education.

Well i'm not so sure that's a good thing to say as a liberal education tends to stretch your mind and so even entrpreneurs oftentimes need to be schooled at a regular JOB (journey of the broke) which gives them certain skill sets they can use when they go out on their own and you won't even get access to the good skill sets and the training if you don't have a degree, or at least it will be much more difficult.

let's say you want a sales weanie to go out and peddle your software. Do you want some rube from the ghetto who was polishing his entrprenuerial skills dealing dope and talking shit, or a more urbane individual who can hold a discourse with intelligent people on a wide range of subjects and not sound like an idiot.

Saying education may not be reuqired for success is very wrong. As i always say, "I once knew a man, he had the money and I had the experience. Now he has the experience and i have the money"

when you can say that, you have somehow acquired an education be it formal or the the combination of the formal and the life long pursuit of excellence in business a lot of us strive for.

busman7

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  • Added on: December 10th, 2010
2wanderers wrote:[

As I said before (maybe you missed it), if you have the entrepreneur personality, you'll likely do fine without an education. But in the modern world, not having a piece of paper on your wall is a huge block against moving up in the wage-earning ranks. And not everyone's cut out for starting a business, so if you're not, education becomes quite important.



Yes I saw that, you are correct & I should have qualified my remarks by saying that my take on today's job market is that a trade certificate or community college diploma will give most a better shot in the job market than a BA degree.
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Jester

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  • Added on: December 11th, 2010
halfnine wrote:Actually, my favourite is when people who have never worked in the country in question spout off about the job market or value of degrees, etc. :)

My favourite is when people try to pretend Canadian and American job markets are vastly different entities. ;)

Well my favorite is when salary slaves spout off about the qualifications of people who have had the initiative to beat the system!

I've asked you this before: wasn't the government your biggest customer? I'm curious about the dichotomy of being Free and Owning Your Future by virtue of Self Employment vs essentially relying on the government for your income. I don't mean this as criticism - you did it for 30 years and you've now retired down in central america so obviously you must have done something right. But if we're going to differentiate between 'salary slaves' and business owners, why can't we differentiate between business owners who make a living in private industries vs business owners who contract with the government?

my take on today's job market is that a trade certificate or community college diploma will give most a better shot in the job market than a BA degree.

Maybe. Trade certificate almost certainly from what I hear. Community college probably depends on what type of work you're doing, and what kind of diploma it is. But I think you were the one who brought 'BA degree' into the discussion initially. All I, and I think 2wanderers, were saying was he should think hard about getting an education.


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