Not looking for an argument at all just voicing my experiences in contrast to your constant references to "gutter Spanish" & uneducated teachers.

I think lack of immersion outside of Spanish lessons is more of a concern in Antigua than the instructors. Most people who arrived in Antigua or Atitlan to study Spanish seemed to spend most of their time outside of class hanging out with other foreign backpackers, speaking English. If I were more serious about studying Spanish than the backpacking scene, I'd go straight to Xela and study there.

Felix wrote:I think lack of immersion outside of Spanish lessons is more of a concern in Antigua than the instructors. Most people who arrived in Antigua or Atitlan to study Spanish seemed to spend most of their time outside of class hanging out with other foreign backpackers, speaking English. If I were more serious about studying Spanish than the backpacking scene, I'd go straight to Xela and study there.

Agree 100% as even when staying with a family there are way too many opportunities to socialize with others speaking your own language.

Yeah, unless you look Guatemalan, or demonstrate that you don't or won't speak English, many or even most people in Antigua will address you in English by default.

When I used the term "gutter Spanish" I was not referring to profanity. It is a term used locally to refer to the trash Spanish spoken by the lower classes. There are many so called Spanish instructors here for whom Spanish is their second language. They use extremely poor grammar.

What the heck? A term used where? I've never heard it... maybe it's a story rich Gringos tell each other at bedtime. The Spanish spoken by the, uh, "lower classes" isn't any "dirtier" or more "gutter" than the upper crust, though at times it's a bit less pretentious. Sounds like someone has a bit of a classist view of the country, 10 years in Antigua you say? Ouch... that's what's happening to the place.

Yes, indigenous speakers sometimes speak more slowly and people with less advanced education might not grasp the more complex grammatical structures, but they still speak beautiful Spanish and are often excellent for beginning students. Might want to get your mind out of the "gutter".

Used to stop at El Portal on my way to Spanish class get a coffee to drink in the park & usually had a conversation with one of the ladies selling jewelry mostly in Spanish but would lapse into English if things got above my level. She had a god grasp of 4 languages with enough of 2 others to sell her wares, made this gringo feel really stupid LOL

I don't understand this 'gutter Spanish' thing. Does that mean Mayan-accented Spanish? It's not going to make that much difference to a beginner if the teacher doesn't use the past subjunctive or vosotros correctly.

It was in the 8th week that we got into the vosotros thing.

It was the 3 weeks of lessons in Havana where they just love can't figure out if they want to speak Latin American or Castilean Spanish that threw a curve ball into everything.

busman7 wrote:Latin American or Castilean Spanish that threw a curve ball into everything.

Structurally, they are the same language. Everyone understands and recognizes Mexican Spanish, so I stick with that one.

Felix wrote:

busman7 wrote:Latin American or Castilean Spanish that threw a curve ball into everything.

Structurally, they are the same language. Everyone understands and recognizes Mexican Spanish, so I stick with that one.

In Cuba they tend to use the formal usted when speaking to police, customs agents etc, while it was explained to me doing that in Guatemala you would be looked at as putting on aires & that wouldn't be in your favor. Imagine it would be overlooked in a tourist though.

That said you would be understood even with the dialect changing a bit in each country, the most interesting example I found was bus station which in Mexico is camionera while in Guatemala is estacionamiento de buses.

¿Still don't know where the "gutter Spanish" came from?

This is wonderful. Getting a real interchange of ideas and experiences going on BnA. It helps all of us.

busman7 wrote: In Cuba they tend to use the formal usted when speaking to police, customs agents etc, while it was explained to me doing that in Guatemala you would be looked at as putting on aires & that wouldn't be in your favor. Imagine it would be overlooked in a tourist though.

That's just a superficial difference though. Usted is used much more frequently in places like Costa Rica and Colombia, while in Argentina and Uruguay people use vos instead of tu. The grammar remains the same.

Felix wrote:

busman7 wrote: In Cuba they tend to use the formal usted when speaking to police, customs agents etc, while it was explained to me doing that in Guatemala you would be looked at as putting on aires & that wouldn't be in your favor. Imagine it would be overlooked in a tourist though.

That's just a superficial difference though. Usted is used much more frequently in places like Costa Rica and Colombia, while in Argentina and Uruguay people use vos instead of tu. The grammar remains the same.

I fully agree & thought I mentioned that in a prior post but didn't. My teacher in Antigua also mentioned that vos is used there among good friends.

Guatemala City is by far the most dangerous place in Guatemala, and that is why lots of travelers pass trough and so many guide books will tell you to avoid it.

I fully agree & thought I mentioned that in a prior post but didn't. My teacher in Antigua also mentioned that vos is used there among good friends.

Or among Argentinian con-people that want you to think they're good friends. Then they steal the television from your hostel. In other words, its used to give the impression that one is among friends, and possibly among people they know for more than just a random encounter.

Not saying that they're all untrustworthy, just that one can't always conclude close friendship on their part when they use vosotros.