Hi,

I'm going to Thailand in December and am considering taking a frameless pack (golite jam)-aiming for 15 lb pack weight. Just wondering if anyone else travels with a frameless pack and what your experience was like? Thanks.

I carried a framless pack in Basic Training.
It pulled on my shoulders and cut off circulation to my arms. NOT a good idea if you are planning on trekking any distance what so ever.
An internal frame pack is so much more comfortable and come in a variety of sizes.
Look for something that transfers weight to the hips.
I have a 35L framless day pack....but thats just for transit travel or weekend hops.

Thanks for the reply. I think the pack wearing requirements of basic training and traveling might be a little different, though. I'll agree to some extent with you. Some internal frame packs are comfier than frameless packs. Many thru-hikers use frameless packs (20-25 miles/day). And some frameless packs also do a decent job of transferring loads to the hips, depending on how they're packed.

Can I ask what you mean by weekend hop? I don't plan on doing any trekking - just moving from one city/town/village to another.

Well...carrying weight is carrying weight..wether it is Basic Training or wandering the Alps looking for Heidi to yodel....and I haven't found a framless pack worth a @#$%.

My 35L day pack weekend hopper is for 2-3 day "over nighters" I transit from Afghanistan to USA about every 3 months. Takes me 2-3 days to get home and I use that pack cause:
1) I'm usually just going to the airport/hotel with it

2) I don't have to check it.

BUT when I'm taking a longer trip (week or so) I use my internal frame 85L.
I also have a North Face Kletter sack which is framless. I've had it for about 20 years now and it does OK for trips under a week and as long as I don't have to carry it far.

I am only planning on taking at max a 35 litre pack - and not full. If I was taking an 85 litre pack, I would definitely take a framed one. And I'm not planning on checking my bag, either. Maybe I'll just pick up a golite jam, try loading it at home with what I'm planning to take on the trip and walk around for a while.

I've never used a frameless pack, but am somewhat skeptical of their longevity. No matter how great Go Lite says their fabric is, it just all seems a little too flimsy, like you should pack a patch kit.

I have a Kelty Redwing 2650 internal frame pack that I often use for short trips and overnight hiking. Something like that might be a good lightweight, compact option for you.

Personally, I prioritize "good fit" and "weight distribution" over "lightweight."

The ultralight movement has become very popular lately, but it has serious drawbacks, especially for international travel.

Durability is a major concern. When you're hiking the A.T., you are in control of your pack the entire time. This is not true when you're taking a bus in Thailand. Additionally, many of these super small packs don't offer you any space to pick up souveniers or carry basic food and water.

Also consider comfort. An extra few ounces to go for a small pack with a plastic insert frame may be a good idea.

Distributing the weight comfortably is the job of the backpack. Packing light is the job of the traveller.

The best frameless pack I've had so far was, GASP, an old army Alice pack, and I still have it. Its as sturdy as you get, and more or less waterproof. All buckles, no zippers to break.

I use it for weekend trips, and one week trips, WITH a second back as my normal daypack. Its great for temp situations. I'm not sure I'd take it as a primary pack if I was going to do hours of hiking a day.

I have seen some brilliant smallish internal framed packs, some with curved back support, breathability, and hip belts. At that point, if its not overloaded, pack weight isn't as important as support and a waist belt. The waist belt makes up for a lot.

warning, as usual, the lightest internal frame packs are usually the most expensive. It never fails that the ones I like are the ones I can barely afford.

from T-T:

quote:

The best frameless pack I've had so far was, GASP, an old army Alice pack

!@#$# ALICE &**^&^ piece of verdamt &*(^%$#$!!


so sorry...I had to get that off my chest....

Granite Gear has some great lightweight (less than 3lbs), frame packs worth a look at www.granitegear.com. I worked at an outdoor store that sold them when they first came out. People like 'em and they look fairly non-discrete, which is always a plus for traveling.

I actually own a granite gear nimbus ozone for backcountry use but I don't need that much room for my gear.

I"m picking up a jam pack tonight so will load it up, wear it, throw it around, etc to get a better idea of how it will work on the road. If I don't like it, I'll resort to the osprey stratos 34 that I also have.

Alot of the UL'ers I know that go frameless do so because they're 'replacing' the frame with something like an evazote pad.

I'd also be tempted to go with something a little more rugged, but that silnylon stuff is pretty durable.

Thanks for the advice.

The Jam is actually dyneema which is much more durable than the silnylon. The pack is actually excellent. Very comfortable with the 15 lbs I've had in it and hiked around with. The best thing about it for me are the shoulder straps - because they're less robust than on other packs I actually find them more comfortable as the weight is distributed across the traps evenly - not on just the parts that acatually make contact with the skin (for those of us who are more contoured). The Jam is also easier to carry on one shoulder compared to my other pack. I weighed all my gear last night-only came to 11 pounds.

Markus, what you're referring to is a virtual frame. I actually figured out a way to make one with the Jam. This is what I do: I have 2 large eagle creek packing cubes. All my gear fits into these. All I do is then place these in the pack lenghtwise, and voila - virtual frame. It actually works really well and makes my gear easier to get to-for a top loader. And there's lots of extra room in the pack for souvenirs - extra clothing I buy, etc. as it's way under carry-on dimensions and weight.

Now, my only remaining concern is this - sweat. Mind you - it won't be any cooler than like 28C where I'm going. So should I even worry? If I don't take the Jam, I'm taking an Osprey Stratos (my other daypack). This pack has a ventilated back panel but I'm really not sure it'll help my back sweat less than in the Jam. Any thoughts on this?

Another reason I'm leading towards the Jam is that it "looks" smaller than the Stratos. I've learned that bus drivers often make the decision whether or not to allow your bag as carry-on based on how big your pack looks - and not actually how big it is. Not sure if that makes sense but I've seen large packs make it on board, where my smaller pack was delegated to baggage above or below where I worried about it the entire trip.

I have a Jam pack. It's great for fast and light backpacking. I'll even use it mountaineering. But not for climbing and definately would not take it traveling.

It just lacks durability. I abuse my pack much more traveling than I ever do backpacking. And sacrificing durability to shave 1 or 2 lbs of weight just doesn't make sense for traveling. Your not hiking with your pack for 8-10 hours a day. When I travel my pack is hardly ever even on. The weight of the pack really doesn't matter that much unless you are planning on doing some long treks.

As far as bus drivers our concerned, my pack is probably a little bigger than the Stratos and it always makes it on the bus. It all depends on how insistent you are.

Thanks everyone, especially halfnine for the hands-on experience. I've decided to use the framed pack - stratos 34 instead of the Jam for Thailand.