Hello all:

I am looking for some advice about the rough itinerary I have prepared for my 4 week trip to Europe. This is my first time travelling to Europe and will be doing so on my own. The trip date is Feb 4th - Mar 4th.

Couple things about me I think might help with advice:
*I love the outdoors; I am definately snowboarding the Alps for a couple days, and thinking about trout fishing some streams in Italy. I might cut out the fishing part tho.
*I have a base understanding of ancient civilizations, art, and architecture...but I am equally curious about culture, food, music and geography of the countries I visit.

With that said, here's what I have so far. Is there too much on my itinerary? Let me know what you think and thanks for helping

Fly into Rome: spend 3 or 4 days
Florence: 2 or 3 days
-if I do decide to fish, this will be the region, but I don't even know what kinds of runs the streams get in winter..info ne one?
Pisa: day trip
Courmayeur: 2-3 days do some snowboarding in this alpine village. This resort seems pretty reasonable; anyone have any other suggestions?
Nice/Cannes: 2-4 days
-guys I need help with France. I figure I will passing through to get to Spain, might as well stop over for some days and check it out, right?
Barcelona: 4-5 days
Granada: 2 days
Madrid: 4-5 days--> fly home

*I don't have my plane tickets yet. So if my starting and ending points seem silly please let me know, but my next step was looking into the possibility of an open-jaw ticket. Thanks again! Jon

Hey Jon,

A couple of things - just as fyi - open jaws are usually significantly more expensive than round trip tickets. If you can live with that then no prob.

Also - well - I had promised myself to get off this specific soap box - but in Europe, more countries and stops does not mean getting more for your money. Quite on the contrary.

If you rush through a destination you wont have time for the "little things" that really gets you into the country and the culture. The little things like spending a half day at a cafe in Paris, getting lost in a city for the fun of it, meeting someone new, throwing out the schedule and spending two days with her. Or whatever else might happen that is adventurous on your trip. Going too fast will not even give you time to look for those strange encounters and adventures that really makes all the difference when you travel.

4 weeks? Ok, dont spend less than a week where you stop. 4 weeks to "do Europe" is nutting. 4 weeks to do one country is nice.

The other thing with many stops like this is you will spend quite a bit of time in trains, train stations, airports or other places of transportation. Thats not really a lot of fun, even if it is in a different country.

A day stop in Pisa? Why? A picture with you at the tower? How will that get you to know that city? How will you find that magnificent local restaurant that only the locals know about in one day?

So for a break down - Florence and Rome are both major cities, dont spend less than a week there. You might want to cut out one of them if you cant work in a full week there.

Courmayeur - seems like that specific place is one of your personal "things" - and those are worth a lot. Cant really let go of it huh? But probably dont need a full week there. Although I bet it will be difficult to leave so fast.

Nice / Cannes - dont really need a full week, but at least stay 4 - 5 days.

France is varied - Do you want alps? Paris? Country side?

I would cut out either Barcelona or Madrid. They are both worth a stop, but not worth it to rush through the rest of your vacation.

Granada 2 days? Anywhere that is only worth two days is not worth a stop. I bet Granada is worth a few more days though.

So - thats what I would do. Based on a life time of traveling. Also just as a FYI the pace in Europe is more laid back than in the US. Many countries fairly much close down on Sundays. Shops and Restaurants often close early in the evenings and / or are not open on Sundays. It depends on the country, but this is just as a fyi. Of course other countries has a significant siesta mid day. France and Spain for sure has that. Country is pretty much closed for 2 - 3 hours midday, but stay open later. Shops, tourist destinations even many restaurants - all closed. People are home eating and taking a nap. A dinner at a restaurant is also a significantly slower affair. If the restaurant is half way decent you are expected to stay at least two hours slowly savoring your food.

Clearly, in order to really see a destination you will have to cut out some stuff. Its up to you and your priorities where you chop.

I know people dont want to hear this - with 4 weeks I would stay in one country only. Time to settle in, get to know my destination, its people, culture, food etc. I would probably have multiple stops in that country though. (but maybe not)

Also - I see you come from the US. There is a major misconception in the US. I have run into it all my life. The misconception is that Europe is like the US. Its definitely not. The biggest difference? It is possible to refer to the US and its culture in one sweeping motion. Yes, I know there are differences between the states and their internal cultures, but the differences between states in the US are tiny compared to the differences between countries in Europe. In fact - I sometimes get asked what is the biggest difference between Europe and the US. First of all when I am asked that question I know I have someone clueless. You cant refer to Europe as a cultural whole. So thats usually my answer. It is possible to refer to the United States and its culture in one sentence, it is completely impossible to do the same with Europe.

This means when you travel, and rush through a country you will not have time to get to know that country, culture and its people in a few days, and it will have signficant differences when you move to the next destination.

Good luck

Malene



Malene

Malene makes some good points, and there are definitely others around here who agree with that strategy, but there are others who don't.

Personally, I think your itinerary looks fine, and it's nearly identical to the amounts of time I spent in all those cities on my most recent trip through there. Rome is interesting, but it's also chaotic and I'd never want to spend a whole week there. Florence is nice, but after 2 days I had seen pretty much everything I wanted to see.

Moving quickly does mean that you don't get to know each place as well, but you get to see many more things, and for some of us that's a worthwhile tradeoff.

On my similar trip I stopped in Nice for 3 nights. Hotels are relatively cheap there so it's a good base for that area. I did a day trip to Cannes and another day trip to Monaco. Each are only about 30 minutes away by train, and hotels are more expensive in those places. Nice is nothing like Paris, and it'll still be cold that time of year, but I think it's a good stop anyway.

If you have the ability to invent your schedule as you go, that is best. You shouldn't have any trouble finding hotel rooms or hostel beds that time of year, so you might just make your reservation for Rome and then wing it after that. If you want to stay in Rome for a week and in Florence for another week, then you'll be able to, but if you get restless and want to see new places, then you can move as quickly as you want.

Malene/Rawjer

Thank you for your advice! Also Malene, your "soapbox" makes good sense to me. I totally get what you are saying about staying in one country so that you can soak up the intangible things that no itinerary could account for, and I agree with you. The beauty of my itinerary is that I will be travelling alone and have the ability to totally "wing it", as Rawjer mentions is a good idea. And I am definitely one to modify my "itinerary" at any point to do something else.

Yes, snowboarding the Alps is a must as I will be missing most of the season back home; besides, when will I have this opportunity in the near future?!? So, any advice on resorts or best practices with skiing the Alps in Northern Italy, or the Dolomites would be appreciated guys!

Like I said above, my itinerary is open to spend more time in each city. I am not buying a eurail pass or anything so if I do decide that Pisa is charming and I want to spend more time there, I can.

I was intending on taking a train from italy to Spain, so I figured on my way I would stop in a coastal city of France and check it and maybe some smaller cities for a few days. But my proposed "train trip to Spain" could easily turn into a flight to Spain, if I am pressed for time and it makes more sense $$ wise. Thanks Malene and Rawjer for your advice, and keep it coming if you have more. Cheers.

Check out the weather it's going to be cold at that time of year. Take warm clothes including a brolly, hat and gloves.
Enjoy your trip.
Jean

I would tend to say the same as rawjer, the itinerary looks fine. This is the type of itinerary I would go for too and you will get to see alot more things.

2-3 days is plenty of time for Florence. Also I've met people who stayed in Florence and did both Pisa AND Lucca in one single day trip.

Again 2 days is fine for Granada. Even if you are only there for 1 day it is still totally worth it.

I haven't done that much of France, but if you are looking for suggestions I totally recommend both Avignon and Carcassonne. They are so beautiful.

happy travels!

I could see both sides of the argument for slow down and it's fine, as far as the itinerary goes. I've done both types of trip in Europe and loved them all. It really is personal preference, what you want from your trip, and what percent of your trip you are willing to spend in transit.

I agree with the suggestion above that Pisa and Lucca can be done as a day trip together. I'd leave more time for Lucca though, it is a beautiful walled city and the walk around the ramparts is wonderful.

3 days for Florence is okay if you just want to see the major sights and explore a little. I spent 4 months there last spring and loved the city, so if you want some recommendations send me a message and I'll give you some ideas. You can happily spend much more than 3 days in Florence, but when my friends came to visit for their spring break we spent 2 days in Rome and the other 5 in Florence with day trips on 2 of those days. They said they saw everything they'd really wanted to in Florence after 3 days, but would've been very happy to stay on if they didn't have school.

Good luck with your trip and send a message if you want Florence suggestions!

I think the itinerary is fine if that's what you want to do, get around and see a lot. I'll throw in my opinion on Pisa if you feel the need to see the Leaning Tower (it is cool). Take the train from Florence (1 hour, ~5 Euro) and take the bus over to the tower take some snap shots and buy tacky souvenirs (if that's your thing) then either get back on the train to Lucca (another 40 minutes, awesome town) or head into real Tuscany. i.e. San Gimignano, Siena, Volterra, etc. Pisa's kind of just a modern, small city with one huge, over-run tourist attraction. Personally, I would get there early, spend an hour then head to Lucca and grab a map and walk through the entire city because it is beautiful and more real.

Anyway, I also have spent an extended amount (about 10 months) of time in Italy, so any questions you could send them my way.

Ill jump in too and say think your itinerary is good for 4 weeks - my first trip to europe i crammed a lot more in and on reflection wish i hadnt tho it did give me an excuse to go back!! I agree that Pisa spend an hour there tops - take your photo, wander around and dodge the sellers trying to push all kinds of tacky souvenirs on you.

Re Nice i personlly didnt like it but great for a base to do day trips. Taking the train is a good way of seeing the coast and admiring the scenery and overnighting is great for saving accom money and losing a day of sightseeing.

Re Rome - i prob wouldnt spend less than 4 full days there and even that is cramming a lot in - consider its one full day for the Vatican, another for the Forum, Colosseum etc. When you get there check what discounts are on cos last time i was there all the Forum etc was free and The Vatican Museum was 1/2 price. Try to stay near or close to Termini station as a good base.

Florence again 3 full days and dont forget to book ahead for tickets to Accademia (sp) and the Uffizi.

Re South of France i have only been to Cassis which is near Marseille which is a beautiful town but otherwise i dont really know too much about anywhere downthere but def pick a small town or two to break up the journey and have a look around.

Check out open jaw and straight return tickets and the differences cos it may be cheaper to just get a ryanair or easyjet flight back to Rome.

Sounds like a great trip though

Michelle

i think your plan is fine
if you don't book anything except your first and last hostel you'll be ok i think - it's off season

Pisa: 3 hours
1 hour to get off the train
1 hour to take photos of the tower
1 hour to get back on the next train

France: too bad you don't have more time there. it's my favourite country that i visited.
I guess you could check out Arles
Avignon isn't so great
If you do think you can swing it, get to Paris and spend all your time there. Paris is awesome

If you went a little inland you could hit Carcassone but i have no idea about the weather

Barcelona is cool. The Sagrada Familia is the best structure in Europe.

That looks a pretty good itinerary to me and your timings sound good. For Feb/March, I'd replace Cannes/Nice with some more history in an area like Provence (Avignon, Nimes, Carcassone or others). Any extra time in Florence is worth it as you are really missing some gems in Tuscany (try to cover a day trip to at least one of Siena, San Gimignano, Montepulciano, Chianti). Pisa is disappointing apart from its extraordinary main square. Leave the fishing for home.

In key places like Rome and Florence, prebooking some tickets for important places (such as the Uffizi, Accademia) saves a fair bit of queueing time though in Feb/March that may not be as big an issue.