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the Ukraine in winter

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Postby Nicky Gardner » November 19th, 2006

There are two border crossing points PL to UKR by rail near L'viv. One from Kroscienko to Hirov (2 trains daily) and one from Przemysl to Mostika (minimum 1 train daily throughout the year, but more on certain days). Whether you join a Ukraine bound train at Kroscienko or Przemysl, the routine is the same. The train will trundle to the border, where it will stop - still on the Polish side - for about ten to fifteen minutes. It will then move a mile or so, across the actual border, and then stop again, this time on the Ukrainian side of the border. There it will wait about an hour while the customs formalities are dealt with. Then you continue eastbound. Trains run quite slowly in Ukraine, but I would guess that the border formalities add perhaps 80 minutes to a Przemysl to L'viv journey.

Leaving L'viv for Hungary, the most obvious train (8.29 pm from L'viv) crossing the border at a peculiarly inconvenient hour of the night. About 3 in the morning. I feel this train is best avoided!
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Postby Nicky Gardner » November 19th, 2006

With respect to the point made about the delays occasioned by gauge changes at the Polish / Ukrainian border, these simply don't apply at the two border crossing points I mentioned. At Kroscienko, the Polish train runs to Hirov in Ukraine, where you disembark, and hop over the platform to the adjacent Ukrainian train which leaves five minutes later. Similarly, if you join the evening train into Ukraine at Przemysl (just after 7 pm, I think), it is already configured in Ukrainian mode so no extra wait for that.

If you cross the PL / UK border further north (eg. at Dorohusk) and use the Berlin to Kiev train, then there you can expect a festival of wheel-changing, as the train is reconfigured for Soviet gauge tracks. That takes about 2 to 3 hours. But if you stick to local trains, then you just change trains at the border (one side or the other) and no delays for the gauge change.
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Postby Fugazi » November 20th, 2006

Thanks Nicky! I think I'll be coming from Zamosc, Poland...I guess that will be Kroscienko?

Anyway, sounds like it shouldn't be that bad. Any suggestions about L'viv? Pubs? Neighborhoods? Museums? Hostels? Anything to avoid?
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Postby Nicky Gardner » November 20th, 2006

ZAMOSC TO L'VIV
Now you mention Zamosc, that suggests bus as the most obvious route to L'viv. There are direct buses every day from Zamosc to L'viv, usually taking about three to four hours. That includes a stop at the border. By train Zamosc to L'viv is a bit circuitous, involving changes at Jaroslav and Przemysl. Daily from Zamosc at 10.38, long waits at both connection points, gets into L'viv twelve hours later. As to L'viv and its region, check out L'viv Ecotour (www.lvivecotour.com), a really good small company run by the ever-helpful Vladyslav Tsarynnyk ('Slav' for short) who speaks remarkably good English, and offers fine insights into L'viv's cultural and political history. A mega-nice guy! And it is worth buying the Bradt Guide to Ukraine - to my mind, it's the best of the English language guidebooks to the country. Have a good trip.
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Postby Fugazi » November 21st, 2006

Well, Nicky, I haven't left yet...

I don't have to go to Zamosc. I am going to Krakow to see an acquaintance and could go straight from there I suppose. What is the quickest or most hassle-free route between Krakow and L'viv?

Maybe I can scratch Zamosc and go somewhere else bewteen the two. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for all the help thus far as well.

Ciao!
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Postby Nicky Gardner » November 21st, 2006

This link may be useful. Hope it works. It gives the times of the regular direct buses for the short hop over the border between Przemysl and L'viv. There are frequent train connection between Krakow and Przemysl. The latter is a pleasant small town and warrants a one night stop. If you want to go direct from Krakow to L'viv and prefer trains, then the 1.30 pm daily departure from Krakow gets into Przemysl about 5, giving a useful couple of hours for a wander before hopping onto the evening train to L'viv.

For a more ambitious foray into southeast Poland, I'd recommend heading through Sanok into the country's extreme southeast corner, but that will only be possible if you are prepared to spend a day or two using local buses.
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Postby Fugazi » November 26th, 2006

Ok, not to be paranoid...but I remember people talking about smuggling into the Ukraine and acquaintances here in Prague just told me to be prepared to be searched thoroughly and not to have electronics like iPod's or laptops, etc. They say confiscation is possible. Is this a valid claim?
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Postby my2thhurts » November 26th, 2006

It is a very valid claim. However, I never had any of my things taken and only occassionally had to pay a bribe.

The extenet of searches that I went through, when I was on a train or bus, was that sometimes I had to open my bag for them to look in. I answered a few questions but never really had to answer very many questions. You do sometimes see drug sniffing dogs.

Ukraine has realized the benifits of increased tourism - especially when it is people from western nations - and are making it easier and easier to get into the country.

If you don't try to smuggle anything and are polite, then you won't have any problems.
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Postby Fugazi » November 29th, 2006

Nicky, thanks a ton for the bus schedule. You're amazing! That will be quite handy. I have secured hostels from home to Przemysl. Trying to sort out L'vov...

Cheers...
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Postby Eastern_Bloc_MC » December 28th, 2006

I am going to Eastern Europe in late March/early April and I'm thinking of going to Lviv/Lvov. I haven't been across the Polish border to the Ukraine yet and I am interested in checking it out. My main concerns are that I will be carrying a relatively expensive Nikon (either N80 or D70s) and I am afraid that the border guards may say something like "Comrade...that is a very nice camera you have....".
Another concern I have is that it seems to be a PITA to get to Lviv/Lvov. I will have 3 weeks and a couple of days. This is what I was thinking...
Dulles to Berlin - after customs head for the train and get going to Prague.
*Prague - 5 - 6 days? I've been there 3 times and I love it. I also have a free place to stay there Trinque
*Krakow one day so I can see Auchwitz again. Last time I only had an hour. I'm afraid that I won't have enough time for this stop.
*Warsaw - 2 days. I know it's been bombed to smithereens but I'd like to go see it. I hear it's a good town to party in.
*Gdansk/Sopot 3 days. I know it will be too cold to go in the water but I wouldn't go in the water even if it was warm enough. There's something about a town on the water even in winter.
*Lodz - 1-2 days. David Lynch said that Lodz is one of his favortie citys. David Lynch is a sick pup. Could be interesting.

*Lviv - 2 days.
*Przemysl maybe overnight on the way back?
*Prague - overnight to rest a little
*Berlin - 2-3 days

With Lviv being so difficult to get to is it really worth it? I don't want to take 15 hour train rides to get there. I want to avoid overnight trains. I will not get up at 7am so that I can get somewhere. How much is the train fare from Warsaw to Lviv? Would it make better sense to spend $244 on a r/t plane ticket? Is Lviv worth paying $244 to see? Maybe I’ll just go to Zamosc and pay almost nothing in train fare? Any suggestions on where to stay in Przemysl?
It maybe wooden but I'd gladly give a nickel for your two cents. Thanks
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Postby my2thhurts » December 29th, 2006

You really don't need to worry about some one demanding your camera at the border. There is an art to asking for and giving bribes. My experience in the Ukraine is that they usually only practice it on the citizens. Westerners crossing borders are almost never targets.

As to whether or not L'viv is worth it, depends on what your are looking for. You sound like you don't want to go much out of your way. If the trip will ruin your travel, the don't go. But if you want to see a city full of life and wonderful people, then it is well worth it.
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